New lanes, I-25, Castle Rock to Monument (Denver, Aurora: for sale, homes)

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DougStark

There's no reason toll roads need to be the answer. For example, the Phoenix area is finishing up the final portion of our massive freeway system, funded by ballot initiative.

Colorado allows ballot measures? So the general public voted down sales tax increases to fund freeway expansion in the Denver area?


https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...one/707104002/

You also have the legislature proposing a $.25 increase to the fuel tax to pay for maintenance because, like everywhere else, no one wants to pay for O&M.


CO is tricky because of the aforementioned TABOR, Gallagher, Amendment 23 and the conflicting mandates that they put on state funding. Plus, voters think that a $10M in tax increase provide $1B in roadway improvements.

[DougStark]

^^^^ Then I guess you guys get what you deserve and I have no pity for you.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DougStark

^^^^ Then I guess you guys get what you deserve and I have no pity for you.

Yep, Colorado voters are inherently stupid and we continuously cut off our own noses to spit our faces.

There’s a reason that no other state has passed TABOR legislation.

[DenverBrian]

Originally Posted by blindside

To say that increasing capacity reduces drive times is mythology. It's a short win that over a time becomes an overall loss as the population grows and again clogs the roadway. Southern CA and Houston are prime examples of this. 6 lanes in each direction, all gridlock. I highly doubt adding more lanes will alleviate the problem.

Not analagous. Castle Rock to Monument is semi-rural and only two lanes in each direction currently, generally with 5+ miles between exits. Expanding to three (free) lanes increases capacity by 50%.

SoCal and Houston are ultra-urban corridors where the freeways are already 4-5 lanes in each direction, and exits every mile or two. Adding a lane increases capacity only by 20-25%.

[DougStark]

I've seen opinions re: opposing additional freeway lanes like blindside's many times before.

Fact is, adding lanes DOES reduce congestion. For example, in San Diego County, two of their huge freeways merge (I-5 and 805). Cal Trans did a MASSIVE project in this merge area to reduce backups. They added an unbelievable number of lanes. It's the widest freeway section I've ever seen in my life. Result? MUCH better traffic flow.

[Westerner92]

1) Fuel taxes haven’t been raised since the early 90s. Gas tax is a ¢/gallon tax, not a percentage. Between increased fuel efficiency and inflation, DOTs around the nation are hit with a double whammy of decreasing budget per capita.

2) Toll lanes actually reduce traffic more than adding the same number of free lanes. There’s an economy of diminishing returns with adding freeway lanes because traffic weaving decreses the efficiency of freeways. Once you get beyond 4-5 lanes, there’s basically no point. Toll lanes add a lane of traffic, control the weaving more effectively, serve as an emergency lane for both first responders and civilians in a hurry, and encourage ride sharing.

3) The amount of money pitched in by El Paso County voters is laughably small. It amounts to a lane mile of pavement in a greenfield development. The I-25 south gap project is a retrofit of one of the most busy and dangerous highways in the US through relatively rugged terrain. El Paso County and DougCo drivers are easily the worst I’ve ever seen, almost pathologically incapable of not tailgating, causing shockwave jams, and rear ending each other. They basically cause the jams they sit in with their entitled driving styles. I used to do road construction inspection there, and DougCo is just about the only place in the world an 8-car pileup can occur in perfectly clear weather on a straight road. There are no significant interchanges or housing developments between Castle Rock and Monument that cause bottlenecks. The jams are caused by tailgating.

4) Conservative voters have a tendency to get mad at government agencies who use half measures because their budgets are cut in half, and it causes a vicious cycle of incompetence. See the failed transportation bonds of 2018. The path America has been on since the 80s leads here. Highways are being privatized. I’ll never use a tollway willingly, but I’m more than happy to go 45 mph in my peasant lane while the coal rolling lift kit truck tries to bully Lexuses only going 5 mph over the speed limit in the toll lane. If they were with the rest of traffic, I’d have been in stop-and-go instead. I wish I were exaggerating, but I saw it more than once this afternoon on I-70, and I’ve modeled it more than once in my professional career.

[DrDog]

Originally Posted by DougStark

I've seen opinions re: opposing additional freeway lanes like blindside's many times before.

Fact is, adding lanes DOES reduce congestion. For example, in San Diego County, two of their huge freeways merge (I-5 and 805). Cal Trans did a MASSIVE project in this merge area to reduce backups. They added an unbelievable number of lanes. It's the widest freeway section I've ever seen in my life. Result? MUCH better traffic flow.

And it’s such an inexpensive place to live. Lol. In SoCal, “better traffic flow” is not necessarily great traffic flow.

Keep in mind that SoCal, and the valley of the sun, don’t get freezing weather, so they avoid a huge roadway maintenance bill, and can put money towards new roads.

Both L.A. and San Diego have tollways.

[blindside]

Ehh unless Castle Rock / Monument pass some major restrictions on growth and development, semi-rural doesn't last long. Before Highlands Ranch and Centennial, Acres Green in Littleton used to be the sticks.

Originally Posted by DenverBrian

Not analagous. Castle Rock to Monument is semi-rural and only two lanes in each direction currently, generally with 5+ miles between exits. Expanding to three (free) lanes increases capacity by 50%.

SoCal and Houston are ultra-urban corridors where the freeways are already 4-5 lanes in each direction, and exits every mile or two. Adding a lane increases capacity only by 20-25%.

[DougStark]

Originally Posted by DrDog

And it’s such an inexpensive place to live. Lol. In SoCal, “better traffic flow” is not necessarily great traffic flow.

Keep in mind that SoCal, and the valley of the sun, don’t get freezing weather, so they avoid a huge roadway maintenance bill, and can put money towards new roads.

Both L.A. and San Diego have tollways.

The VAST majority of freeways in San Diego and Los Angeles are just that: FREEways. Lived there, I know that.

To be honest, I don't give a s&$t if more lanes are added on I-25 or not; I don't live there--I only visit family.

[illinoisphotographer]

Originally Posted by blindside

Ehh unless Castle Rock / Monument pass some major restrictions on growth and development, semi-rural doesn't last long. Before Highlands Ranch and Centennial, Acres Green in Littleton used to be the sticks.

Castle Rock will continue to grow (as will Parker and Aurora) as a Denver Exburb, however Monument would be too far out. Monument is more of a Suburb/Exburb of CO Springs.

Not saying that people won't buy in Monument or CO Springs and commute to Denver for work, just that I don't see the growth there fueled by commuters any more than say Littleton growing to support jobs in Boulder.