The most user unfriendly airport. Period. (Denver, Colorado Springs: Valentine's day, restaurant, military)

[denverian]

Originally Posted by tfox

Denver's airport is not bad for such a large airport. The planners obviously took the basic design from Atlanta's airport, and took some notes and fixed all the problems that makes that airport so hellish. Notice our ultra-wide concourses with plenty of room to maneuver, compared to Atlanta's snaky labyrinthine corridors. Notice the vast distances between the concourses, so planes from opposite concourses can taxi to their gate simulaneously. Notice the ultimate plan for a dozen independent runways on build-out (most large airports have no more than three). Denver is operationally second-to-none from an aviation perspective.

Denver's airport, though, does have the distance from the city center as its Achilles' heel, a fault it shares with several other large airports (Washington-Dulles) for example. Compare the convenience to, say, McCarran airport in Las Vegas, which is ultra-conveniently situated, or Phoenix airport, which is about as central as could possibly be in that sprawling metro area. Both are similar in passenger traffic to Denver. Operationally, Denver's airport has an advantage over both, but both have great, convenient locations that Denver sadly does not have. Part of it is just bad luck -- those cities airport sites allowed for the kind of expansion that our Stapleton airport did not. Denver was actually fortunate that the Rocky Mountain Arsenal had choked off development on the northeast side, allowing for a site large enough to accomodate a new airport.

Speaking of bad luck: San Diego's tiny airport is bursting at the seams right now, but it's caught between the city and the bay with nowhere to go. The only vacant land nearby is owned by the military and they have no interest in allowing civilian aviation on their territory. The closest available site is located over the mountains and in the imperial valley, over 100 miles away -- plans would include a high-tech maglev train to ferry passengers over the mountains to the terminal -- total costs for the train alone would be many times the costs of Denver's entire airport project. City planners are holding off hoping that the military will change their minds, and some simply suggest that the city do nothing and accept the fact that the city may be permanently underserved by air travel.

I like San Diego's airport. It's centrally located and seemed nice enough inside and out, but I understand the expansion problem. I like watching the planes drop down over Balboa Park to the runway - must not be very fun for pilots though

[bhcompy]

Originally Posted by denverian

I like San Diego's airport. It's centrally located and seemed nice enough inside and out, but I understand the expansion problem. I like watching the planes drop down over Balboa Park to the runway - must not be very fun for pilots though

John Wayne in Orange County they drop in right over the 405 freeway. Imagine driving and a 747 is a hundred feet over your head flying across traffic

[Count David]

Originally Posted by bhcompy

John Wayne in Orange County they drop in right over the 405 freeway. Imagine driving and a 747 is a hundred feet over your head flying across traffic

Same deal at Ontario (CA) airport on I-15.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by bhcompy

John Wayne in Orange County they drop in right over the 405 freeway. Imagine driving and a 747 is a hundred feet over your head flying across traffic

Yeah, I worked across the street from the JW Airport for 9 years. They don't fly 747s into JWA - the largest aircraft is a 757. But I've been sitting on the 405 stuck in traffic when a plane went screaming overhead and I actually ducked inside my car! The don't fly wide-body aircraft into JW because they would violate the noise rules when taking off over Newport Beach - the way the aircraft have to basically "launch" to get up to a certain altitude and then cut back the engines to coast over Newport Beach quietly. I assume a 747 couldn't take off that steep and fast.

That's another airport that's landlocked and too small. OC really blew it when they turned down the El Toro site for a larger airport. I lived in Orange under the JW flight path and planes were always overhead, but not too low. One day I was at Ralphs and some woman outside tried to get me to sign an anit-El Toro petition and I told her I liked the idea of an airport there. Then she went nuts, yelling at me about how there would be more aircraft flying over Orange, ruining our lives and property values. I just told her I liked watching the planes fying over. People in OC can be quite insane!

[RedSoxFanGoingWest]

The NY airports (JFK, LaGuardia, Newark) are wonderful. Everytime I am there I spend WAY more time than expected!!

[denverian]

Originally Posted by RedSoxFanGoingWest

The NY airports (JFK, LaGuardia, Newark) are wonderful. Everytime I am there I spend WAY more time than expected!!

I hear LGA has a new Queens to The Hudson nonstop

OK, that was just wrong on my part.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by denverian

Yeah, I worked across the street from the JW Airport for 9 years. They don't fly 747s into JWA - the largest aircraft is a 757. But I've been sitting on the 405 stuck in traffic when a plane went screaming overhead and I actually ducked inside my car! The don't fly wide-body aircraft into JW because they would violate the noise rules when taking off over Newport Beach - the way the aircraft have to basically "launch" to get up to a certain altitude and then cut back the engines to coast over Newport Beach quietly. I assume a 747 couldn't take off that steep and fast.

John Wayne's long runway is only about 5300' long which is pretty short. Even a fully loaded 757 takes pretty much the whole thing to slow down enough make the left turn for the terminal. And I agree about El Toro. Its a shame to tear up perfectly good 10,000-12,000' military grade runways for what? More beige houses and office parks? John Wayne's still a great airport to fly through since its so easy but the limited capacity does drive up the costs and limits options.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

John Wayne's long runway is only about 5300' long which is pretty short. Even a fully loaded 757 takes pretty much the whole thing to slow down enough make the left turn for the terminal. And I agree about El Toro. Its a shame to tear up perfectly good 10,000-12,000' military grade runways for what? More beige houses and office parks? John Wayne's still a great airport to fly through since its so easy but the limited capacity does drive up the costs and limits options.

I used to fly in and out of JWA a lot and it was convenient because I could park for free at work. Most often on 757s, and they seemed like they could barely manage the quick takeoff. But overall it's a pleasant and easy to navigate airport.

I was in OC last year a couple times, but never made it out to El Toro to see what they were doing. I heard a huge park and more houses?

One person's beige is another person's tan - as long as it has a red tile roof

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by denverian

I used to fly in and out of JWA a lot and it was convenient because I could park for free at work. Most often on 757s, and they seemed like they could barely manage the quick takeoff. But overall it's a pleasant and easy to navigate airport.

I was in OC last year a couple times, but never made it out to El Toro to see what they were doing. I heard a huge park and more houses?

One person's beige is another person's tan - as long as it has a red tile roof

I'm so used to the short take-offs and landings in OC that flying through Colorado Springs and Denver are boring by comparison. One time landing at COS I wondered if the pilot was ever going to apply the brakes once we were on the ground or if we were just going to coast to a stop on the huge runway. Same thing taking off. Its like they're using half power as opposed to the near catapult shot out of OC.

I haven't kept up on the plans for El Toro but I know a huge park was one proposal but thankfully they figured out it would have been a huge money pit. I guess now is slated for a bunch uses but I don't know what anybody's time line is. El Toro could have been to John Wayne what DIA is to Stapleton but all the nimbys that bought houses next to a Marine Corp Air Station suddenly decided that jets are bad. Too bad really.

[ColoWeb]

I will add my $0.02:

I am not saying this because I live here but I find DIA to be one of the best Airports I been to (and I have been to plenty with the exception of the Midwest/East coast).

I never had issues finding anything using the signs posts, I really like the way it is organized (east/west) and the concourses A,B,C. As for the escalators, whats the problem with that? You have a train that runs underground! DIA even renamed the word "concourses" to "gates" as people could not understand "Concourses A." I am not sure if this change was made due to a New Yorker.... ok just kidding and adding $0.01 to my $0.02.

I think what makes this airport so great is due to its age and the modern approach. The only valid argument against DIA is its location and - one thing that I will add - the unattractive appeal around it (nothingness) but that will change in time as the city expands.