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Wait a minute. Are you saying that minorities = bad school?
I went to Polton Elementary school (just down the street from and the next nearest elementary school to Eastridge, the school this article is about), and then on to Overland High School. Overland, despite being in the CC school district, has for decades been the most diverse (statistically) high school in Colorado. When I went there in the late 90's there were something like 19 languages spoken by the students. That part of the CC district has a large Russian community, large Korean community, large Black community, large Islamic community, large White (larger than all others) community, and a large Hispanic community.
When initially moving into the area, my parents planned on living in the Chreey Creek HS feeder area, but after seeing the diversity at Overland and the total lack of it at CCHS, they decided Overland was the better choice. It's still a fantastic school with fantastic teachers. The year I graduated 3 people went to Stanford, 1 to Harvard, 1 to MIT, I went to Reed (turned down Brown and UC Berkeley among others), 50+ went to CU boulder, many more went to DU.
When someone asks on the forum which schools are good, I give my opinion based on my own observations. I always preface my remarks by saying one should visit the schools themselves to get an accurate assessment. I also mention that I can only speak for one school, which my kids attend, which happens to be in the Cherry Creek School District, but may not be representative of the district as an entirety. However, there have been people on the forum who misconstrue personal experience as something beyond that. So let me illustrate this logically: do I like my kids' school? Definitely! Is it a Cherry Creek School? Yes. Therefore I must love Cherry Creek district and all that it encompasses, correct?
People should always visit schools before sending their kids to one, no matter which district they're in. There are some well-regarded schools that are incredibly competitive and sports-minded and if your child doesn't have a competitive streak, they may well fall through the cracks. It's about knowing your kid and taking an interest in their success.
What I find bizarre is the idea that what district a school is in pales in comparison to what one particular neighborhood school is like.
Good schools don't just happen. They have a good school district which approves the curriculum, a good principal to enforce the standards, class sizes and discipline, great teachers to follow the curriculum and students and parents who participate in school activities and comply with standards.
If you are in a good school district, the chances are much greater of your child going to a good school than sitting at your computer trying to figure out exactly which streets to live in between in order to send your kid to one of the decent schools in an underperforming district.
It's weird that so few people understand the importance of a school district. I was that way too until I sat through a dozen district-wide meetings and saw for myself that it's not just Mrs. Smith, 2nd grade teacher, that decides what she's going to teach that year. Mrs. Smith has to send her annual lesson plans to the principal who sends it to the school district for approval. On the 1st day of school, all the teachers in the same district have the same action plan and will hopefully get to the end of it by the time school is over. The finish line for each grade is determined by the school district and it's why Cherry Creek SD consistently meets whatever standard is set that year. Now, your child might not respond well to Mrs. Smith's teaching style and that's where you as the parent get involved and make sure your child has the right teacher for them. My school's "official" policy is that they don't take teacher requests, but as a regular volunteer, I discovered that the current teachers build the class lists for the following year and as someone who knows my child's teacher well, I use my opportunity to put in my request (which have been granted for the last 3 years).
Wait a minute. Are you saying that minorities = bad school?
I think these threads get off track and people start throwing out words like "racist" if someone posts facts about districts like DPS who have one of the worst dropout rates in the nation and was recently in the Denver Post cheering for themselves because they upped their graduation rates to almost 1/2. Half.
I think that success in school has less to do with skin color and more to do with what is expected of students by their school staff and their parents. When I wave the flag for Cherry Creek, it's not because of their minority numbers (which at my daughter's school match the national average almost exactly), it's because their students perform year after year well above the state and national average and they graduate well above the average no matter their skin color.
Those who throw out words like "racist" when someone like me points out statistics (which is the only way to compare one district with another) are probably far more close-minded than I am. I don't care what the skin color of my daughter's classmates are. I care that they aren't dropping out of school, that they have plans to go to college, that the neighborhoods that surround the school are relatively low-crime.
People should always visit schools before sending their kids to one, no matter which district they're in. There are some well-regarded schools that are incredibly competitive and sports-minded and if your child doesn't have a competitive streak, they may well fall through the cracks. It's about knowing your kid and taking an interest in their success.
I agree with you on this. I think the topic of "good schools" is controversial because it's also highly subjective. What's good for some kids is not good for all and what is valued by one family may not be valued by another.
A child is a child and their brains work just the same as other kids, whether they have a different skin color or financial background. Cherry Creek EXPECT students to perform up to standards no matter their skin color
This is the sort of comment I was alluding to earlier. Somehow these brown and black poor kids are different and undesirable UNTIL they affect your own district. I would suggest that every district expects students to perform, such is the purpose of schooling after all.
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It's easier to find a great school within a great district than it is to pinpoint the exact boundaries for a good school within a so-so district.
Is it now? So Cherry Creek is somehow a great district by whatever standards you can make up to suit you and yet DPS must be the referred to so-so district according to these same unicorn inspired variables. I should think that finding a quality school involves a lot of work and research no matter where it is and simply relying on the perception of a district as a whole is a rather lazy way to go about things. It would be like getting on whatever bus happened to drive by closest to where you were standing and expecting that eventually it would somehow magically get you to wherever your destination is without ever checking to see where it actually goes.
As I stated above, things should get interesting as the CC district continues to see an influx of lower income ESL kids and a population that ages out of the group willing to increase taxes, which has already happened, not to mention the decreasing home values and thus revenue at both ends of the district, think north Aurora and the way out places near Southlands Mall which have seen the greatest numbers of foreclosures.
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CC is still a very expensive place to live compared to neighboring districts so I'm willing to bet those immigrants that live there are the self-starting types that went through years of legal red tape to immigrate and probably brought something with them, unlike the illegal type that punish public services in states to the south of Colorado.
See above, this is not the case. CC serves a very large area, the inner or first ring schools in north Aurora are very far from rich as are the outer rings where people have flocked to because of their "affordability."
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When someone asks on the forum which schools are good, I give my opinion based on my own observations. I always preface my remarks by saying one should visit the schools themselves to get an accurate assessment. I also mention that I can only speak for one school, which my kids attend, which happens to be in the Cherry Creek School District, but may not be representative of the district as an entirety. However, there have been people on the forum who misconstrue personal experience as something beyond that. So let me illustrate this logically: do I like my kids' school? Definitely! Is it a Cherry Creek School? Yes. Therefore I must love Cherry Creek district and all that it encompasses, correct?
That is about as honest a response as you can make. What is unfortunate is that on this forum yours is a minority voice and approach. 9 times out of 10 I see blanket statements that provide misguided "facts" on this forum and I am tired of letting it go.
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It's weird that so few people understand the importance of a school district.
I don't find this strange at all. Virtually every study produced in the past twenty years that looked into reasons for educational success placed the district a school was in at or very near the bottom of the reasons for success. Again, it is a lazy way to assess quality or potential.
I agree with you on this. I think the topic of "good schools" is controversial because it's also highly subjective. What's good for some kids is not good for all and what is valued by one family may not be valued by another.
But you have to start somewhere.
School boundaries change all of the time so moving to an area hoping that your kids can go to that one great high school you've heard all about is futile because if the boundaries change, your child may be on the border and have to go to the exact school you were hoping to avoid. It's why it's easier for a parent moving to Denver and starting a househunt that includes good schools to point them towards an entire district because the chance of a good school for their kids is higher.
It's playing the odds and then working to skew the odds in your child's favor once they're in school. I know enough about my daughter's future teachers to know that she wouldn't do well in some of their classes so I request that she is put into others. Either way, she's going to get a good education, but it's the teacher who will make a difference in whether or not she enjoys going to school.
School boundaries change all of the time so moving to an area hoping that your kids can go to that one great high school you've heard all about is futile because if the boundaries change, your child may be on the border and have to go to the exact school you were hoping to avoid. It's why it's easier for a parent moving to Denver and starting a househunt that includes good schools to point them towards an entire district because the chance of a good school for their kids is higher.
It's playing the odds and then working to skew the odds in your child's favor once they're in school. I know enough about my daughter's future teachers to know that she wouldn't do well in some of their classes so I request that she is put into others. Either way, she's going to get a good education, but it's the teacher who will make a difference in whether or not she enjoys going to school.
It starts with research and then comes down to visiting schools and figuring out what is a good fit for your children and you family. You may have to make adjustments to your plans later on since things can and do change no matter what district you live in.
If you enroll your Kindergartner in a district with excellent high schools, you can't be sure that those same schools will still be excellent by the time your child gets there. You might meet the greatest teacher only to find out that they have left before your child could ever get into their class. I personally find it confusing when people come onto the forum asking where the best schools are without giving more information about what in their opinion makes a good school. For some people it's test scores, for others is class size, for others it's diversity, others are looking for alternatives such as Montessori, dual language, etc. It is highly subjective.
I think these threads get off track and people start throwing out words like "racist" if someone posts facts about districts like DPS who have one of the worst dropout rates in the nation and was recently in the Denver Post cheering for themselves because they upped their graduation rates to almost 1/2. Half.
I agree BUT...
The OP titled the thread "For those who use the blanket statement that all Cherry Creek Schools are great" - the clear implication being that all schools in CC are not great - and then links to an article that does not once comment on the quality or CC schools, good or bad, but talks instead about how the district, and one school in particular, has become more diverse.
I haven't followed the thread so maybe it was somehow facetious, or just meant to be incendiary, but the clear implication from just reading the text of the initial post and the article to which it linked was: minorities = bad school.
Last edited by denverkid; 03-10-2010 at 03:13 PM..
I don't find this strange at all. Virtually every study produced in the past twenty years that looked into reasons for educational success placed the district a school was in at or very near the bottom of the reasons for success. Again, it is a lazy way to assess quality or potential.
You seem hell-bent on proving your theory so I will let you have at it.
For parents who are moving to Denver, you can take my advice which is backed up with facts and figures (which I've put below) and countless hours as a volunteer who asks plenty of questions, knows the principal and ass't principal well enough to ask questions about the school district and why it matters and have attended at least a dozen district meetings, or you can take the advice of someone who calls me a racist because I wonder why DPS is excited that their graduation rate is now nearly 50%. Do I wish DPS's graduation rates were higher? Of course...I take no joy in knowing that there are kids who aren't getting the education they both need and deserve, but if I'm new to an area and looking for a good place to raise my family, I am advising people to go to a district that will give them a higher-than-average chance at success. There's no guarantee but you can and should tilt the odds in your kid's favor. I find it strange that you don't agree, but that's the beauty of this site...it allows for discussion.
Here are some links to prove my case and I will leave you to it and head over to discuss last night's episode of "Lost."
Cherry Creek's graduation rates (including those who are minorities who have nearly 30% higher graduation rates in CCSD than in other metro districts):
And to show you that despite whatever "hopes" you have that the increasing minority numbers will decrease the quality of education in CCSD...here's a link and a bit of the news showing that CCSD has taken all of their students, no matter their skin color and have improved them all well above state and national averages. I include the results of SAT scores because I don't put a lot of faith in state tests. My kids aren't going to live in Colorado forever so I want to know what they know in comparison with what kids in New Hampshire know.
The combined SAT scores for 2009 graduating seniors in the Cherry Creek School District rose 38 points from 1704 in 2008 to 1742 in 2009. Scores in Colorado increased 11 points over last year and the national average decreased by 2 points. The state and national averages combined scores for 2009 are 1698 and 1509 respectively.
African American students in Cherry Creek also showed very significant gains in their average combined scores, up 118 points to 1540 in 2009 from 1422 in 2008. Among Hispanic student groups, the average composite was 1639 compared to 1579 in 2008, an increase of 60 points. Because of the gains shown by African American and Hispanic students the achievement gap between these groups and white students was reduced by 91 points for Blacks and 33 points for Hispanics. The achievement gap decreased slightly in Colorado and remained basically unchanged nationally.
Finally, an article that talks about the suburbs getting more diverse.
It states that Arapahoe County (where CCSD has their schools) is "one of the most diverse counties in the state." It talks specifically about the change in minority movement over the last 8 years, yet Cherry Creek's test scores, graduation rates, drop out rates, etc haven't shifted from well above the average, even into the "Outstanding" range. THAT'S the school district's philosophy and their proactiveness in recruiting teachers to work with ESL students (for example) so that they don't fall through the cracks.
The OP's titled the thread "For those who use the blanket statement that all Cherry Creek Schools are great" - the clear implication being that all schools in CC are not in fact great - and then links to an article that does not once comment on the quality or CC schools, good or bad, but talks instead about how the district, on one school in particular, has become more diverse.
I haven't followed the thread so maybe it was somehow facetious, or just meant to be incendiary, but the clear implication from just reading the text of the initial post and the article to which it linked was: minorities = bad school.
You and I aren't in disagreement. I love CCSD and will continue to shout it from the rooftops. What's happened is that there are posters here who throw out words like "racist" if you say that Cherry Creek SD is a good one to raise your kids in (as if we're all caucasian out here which is far from the truth) or say that if one or two schools within Cherry Creek aren't doing great, then it reflects on the other 98% of the other schools that are.
You don't drop your kids off anywhere and hope for the best...not at schools, not at daycare, not at the mall. There is a formula for getting your kids a great education...school district first because it helps you narrow down the field, then neighborhood schools, then teacher, then parent involvement. I work my butt off every day to ensure my kids have whatever they need for their education and I know that the majority of people in our district are the same way. CCSD isn't that convenient to many people's job locations so if you've moved out here with your kids, chances are you've done so for them to get a good education and you will play your part in it too.
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