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Two things:
What happened to "enterprise zones", are they working?
Wouldn't corporate urban farming utilizing large plots of land enhance the tax base?
Two things:
What happened to "enterprise zones", are they working?
Wouldn't corporate urban farming utilizing large plots of land enhance the tax base?
Enterprise zones don't work because they are inherently unfair. The tax breaks you give to some have to be made up for by others. It would be better for the city to reduce the tax rate equally over the whole city instead of discriminatorily over certain areas.
Large-scale urban farming is fantasy. You can not pull a large agricultural plow through a formerly urbanized area. There are too many obstructions (streets, sidewalks, driveways, foundations, utility poles, water and sewer lines, etc.).
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As for the money being wasted rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan instead of on Detroit: I agree that money is being wasted over there, but I'm not so sure that if that money were given to Detroit it would be used properly or have much benefit. Once the people of Detroit choose to live by the standards set in place by the majority of people (who live outside the city), they will solve the problem themselves, a problem that no amount of Federal dollars can fix.
My idea for fixing Detroit? Focus on the neighborhoods. Stop worrying about downtown. If people have good neighborhoods and good schools, the tax base will return. However, the last forty years have shown us this will not happen, and we all know it. That being the case, focus on the best remaining neighborhoods and turn the rest into farms/greenland. If good people are willing, this can happen.
I agree, the tax base is determined by property ownership in acreage. Big plots of land under corporate ownership IS what we had in the past, but it was manufacturing (which was lost). Technology should allow urban farming to occupy large sites in the city. Farming can't be outsourced!
But as a country we really need to manufacture as well or we're screwed!
Re. downtown: the city previously expanded outward FROM downtown. Maybe history is repeating. But as you said the neighborhoods can't be neglected.
And again you're right - if people want it and work for it, it can be done. I believe attitudes are changing in Detroit, the question is how fast...
I could reply to all the negative comments about Detroit in a rude and insult ant manner but that would be ignorant on my behalf. Instead the question is, "What is my ideas for fixing Detroit?" One post is correct, educate the people to take pride of their city. However, I suggest revamping the who political structure first. Secondly revamp the Detroit Police; both city and county. A pay raise would definitely be in order. Even trying to contain the smallest crimes would help with even the biggest crimes. Third, get more companies in Detroit. Yeah every one can talk about Wally World (Walmart) or Kroger's for that much but it still generate money into the city. I am all for independent business but definitely you need to have some corporate in a city. Fourth, the city or state actually need to get more corporate businesses based in Detroit. The City is no less than any other city when competing for locations of a new plant, or communication call center or what ever. The City has to sell themselves. I am a law enforcement officer and a law school graduate in another city. I frequent Detroit every weekend and spend more finances there then the anywhere else. I have helped families with home ownership and individuals to use resources to improve the quality of living. I have proposed a law enforcement plan, proof of grant funds to help the City, and a beautification plan for Detroit to the counsel men. I have not heard a word back but it will not stop me from trying. I do have a residence there and will always have a home in my home town. I will always defend Detroit and the "diamonds in a ruff" that The City Has to offer.
It all depends on the people who live there. If the people are good, the city is good.
People will say "We need more police." No, you need less criminals.
People will say "We need more jobs." No, you need more reliable workers.
People will say "We need better schools." No, you need more children and parents who value education.
People will say "We need better leaders." No, you need better electors and a better pool of candidates.
People will say "We need to tear down all the burnt out buildings." No, you need to stop burning down buildings.
People will say "We need to tear down all the abandoned homes." No, you need to stop causing people to want to leave the city.
People will say "We need to have people go around picking up all the trash." No, you need to stop littering.
People will say "We need to help all the single parents." No, you need mothers and fathers who are willing and capable of raising children.
People will say "We need to crack down on the drug dealers." No, the drug users need to crack down on themselves.
The problems are not the problem; the people are the problem.
People will say "You are just a racist." No I'm not, but please give me more reasons not to be. Let me see black Detroiters acknowledge that they have problems and are willing to confront them, and I will have hope for the city. But let me see black Detroiters who deny that there are problems and that I - and the media - are just imagining the problems and I will continue to smh.
I wouldn't call you a racist, just narrow minded and unrealistic. Who is this 'you' that you are referring to in your post. Obviously the people offering solutions aren't the same ones causing problems, unless you think that all the people in the city have the same mindstate because they share the same zip codes.
- Yes, Detroit does need more police, there aren't more criminals in Detroit than in other cities (how many Detroiters do you know anyway!), they just get away with more because there are not enough cops!!
-How can you really say that Detroit doesn't need more jobs (seriously have you looked at metro Detroit's unemployment rate compared to the rest of america?), especially in the city. When the middle class left so did the jobs! I've known countless people who spend two plus hours a day riding SMART buses to get to $8/hr jobs in the suburbs, and I've known countless white suburbanites who complain that blacks in Detroit need to get off their as*es and work, then condemn the buslines for bringing "those people" to the burbs!
-Of course, Detroit needs better schools! parents in the city who do value education shouldn't have to send their kids to suburban schools to get safe and adequate schooling.
-As for abandoned and burnt out buildings, white and middle class flight created this problem. You have less than 900,000 people living in a city that used to have almost 2 million. You can't really blame this on the people still there! Of course these homes need to be torn down, not only is it an eyesore, it's unsafe! What's the point in making your home look nice when your block looks like it's been condemned? Why would an industry or retail business go out of their way to set up shop among blocks af vacant buildings? Getting rid of these abandoned buildings is probably one of the biggest keys to revitalizing the city, to say it doesn't need to be done is just plain stupid!!
-Single parent households aren't unique to Detroit. Single parents everywhere (I am one), should be offered help so long as they're willing to help themselves!
-You expect drug dealers to crack down on themselves? Good one! With the inadequate policing, Detroit is a paradise for dope dealers! As a matter of fact, drug dealers get the most help from the suburbs! Go to any dope house in the city right now, and it will be filled with wayward suburbanites getting their fix. At any given time day or night, there's carloads of people from any one of the suburbs cruising down to the 'hood' to get a bag of weed or a couple of rocks. Crackhouses in Detroit are one of the few places where you can find integration in the city! This also goes back to the no jobs thing, even when the economy was booming in the 90's, there were still very few jobs in the city. Very few teenagers are going to ride the bus out to the suburbs to flip burgers when they can get away with selling dope right there in their own neighborhoods with little to no risk of getting caught!
You're right people are the problem, mainly people like you! There are plenty of black Detroiters who acknowledge their city has major issues and they stay and try to do something about it! There are also plenty of suburbanites who complain about the city but would be very hard pressed to lift a finger to do anyhting about it! The whole region is to blame for Detroit's ills, whether its white flight, trigger happy thugs and police, suburban teens taking daddy's car to the hood to get dope, racist white suburbanites who could care less about Detroit blacks and their problems, or racist Detroit blacks who refusing to work on anything with the white man. The people of the Detroit region need to get past the racism and classism that permeates the area or else the whole area will continue to go down the tubes! Anybody who lives in the suburbs and doesn't care about what happens in the city should move out SE Michigan, because the Bloomfields and Troys and Cantons wouldn't exsist without the city!
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,053 posts, read 4,396,416 times
Reputation: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeto
I wouldn't call you a racist, just narrow minded and unrealistic. Who is this 'you' that you are referring to in your post. Obviously the people offering solutions aren't the same ones causing problems, unless you think that all the people in the city have the same mindstate because they share the same zip codes.
- Yes, Detroit does need more police, there aren't more criminals in Detroit than in other cities (how many Detroiters do you know anyway!), they just get away with more because there are not enough cops!!
-How can you really say that Detroit doesn't need more jobs (seriously have you looked at metro Detroit's unemployment rate compared to the rest of america?), especially in the city. When the middle class left so did the jobs! I've known countless people who spend two plus hours a day riding SMART buses to get to $8/hr jobs in the suburbs, and I've known countless white suburbanites who complain that blacks in Detroit need to get off their as*es and work, then condemn the buslines for bringing "those people" to the burbs!
-Of course, Detroit needs better schools! parents in the city who do value education shouldn't have to send their kids to suburban schools to get safe and adequate schooling.
-As for abandoned and burnt out buildings, white and middle class flight created this problem. You have less than 900,000 people living in a city that used to have almost 2 million. You can't really blame this on the people still there! Of course these homes need to be torn down, not only is it an eyesore, it's unsafe! What's the point in making your home look nice when your block looks like it's been condemned? Why would an industry or retail business go out of their way to set up shop among blocks af vacant buildings? Getting rid of these abandoned buildings is probably one of the biggest keys to revitalizing the city, to say it doesn't need to be done is just plain stupid!!
-Single parent households aren't unique to Detroit. Single parents everywhere (I am one), should be offered help so long as they're willing to help themselves!
-You expect drug dealers to crack down on themselves? Good one! With the inadequate policing, Detroit is a paradise for dope dealers! As a matter of fact, drug dealers get the most help from the suburbs! Go to any dope house in the city right now, and it will be filled with wayward suburbanites getting their fix. At any given time day or night, there's carloads of people from any one of the suburbs cruising down to the 'hood' to get a bag of weed or a couple of rocks. Crackhouses in Detroit are one of the few places where you can find integration in the city! This also goes back to the no jobs thing, even when the economy was booming in the 90's, there were still very few jobs in the city. Very few teenagers are going to ride the bus out to the suburbs to flip burgers when they can get away with selling dope right there in their own neighborhoods with little to no risk of getting caught!
You're right people are the problem, mainly people like you! There are plenty of black Detroiters who acknowledge their city has major issues and they stay and try to do something about it! There are also plenty of suburbanites who complain about the city but would be very hard pressed to lift a finger to do anyhting about it! The whole region is to blame for Detroit's ills, whether its white flight, trigger happy thugs and police, suburban teens taking daddy's car to the hood to get dope, racist white suburbanites who could care less about Detroit blacks and their problems, or racist Detroit blacks who refusing to work on anything with the white man. The people of the Detroit region need to get past the racism and classism that permeates the area or else the whole area will continue to go down the tubes! Anybody who lives in the suburbs and doesn't care about what happens in the city should move out SE Michigan, because the Bloomfields and Troys and Cantons wouldn't exsist without the city!
OMG OMG OMG!!!!! you COULDN'T have said it better! most people who generalize everyone in the city to be a certain way and have a certain mindset are the ones who don't come here and don't know any Detroiters. sadly those people run ramped on C-D. People commenting on stuff they know nothing about.
One thing you said about the drug dealers and suburban users is spot on. I've said it over and over. If it wasn't for the same suburban people who complain, coming to the city for fix, there would be little to no crack or herion houses. The drug trade in Detroit is still prevelent almost solely because of them. People in Detroit don't use heavy drugs like that anymore. Hell I can't think of many black people period who use herion and crack. That is an epidemic of the 80s and 90s. Most of those blacks are dead and gone or in jail and the last few left are almost there themselves. Younger black people are less proned to trying herion or crack. We see what it has done to our community and are not sheltered. Why would we want to end up like the dopefiend at the gas station begging for change? They'd more so end up the ones selling it to them. And in no way am I saying that's good but its true. Suburban people complain about drug dealers but they are the ones putting the money in these guys pockets, funding there nice homes (many times in the burbs btw), cars, kids education (contrary to belief many drug dealers send their children to some of the best schools in the metro, even private ones).
There are also plenty of suburbanites who complain about the city but would be very hard pressed to lift a finger to do anyhting about it! The whole region is to blame for Detroit's ills, whether its white flight, trigger happy thugs and police, suburban teens taking daddy's car to the hood to get dope, racist white suburbanites who could care less about Detroit blacks and their problems, or racist Detroit blacks who refusing to work on anything with the white man. The people of the Detroit region need to get past the racism and classism that permeates the area or else the whole area will continue to go down the tubes! Anybody who lives in the suburbs and doesn't care about what happens in the city should move out SE Michigan, because the Bloomfields and Troys and Cantons wouldn't exsist without the city!
You are right about one thing. Without Detroit, more specifically the need to flee its degeneration, the Bloomfields, Troys, and Cantons may not have come to exist because they might never have been necessary. They would now be extensions outward of Detroit.
Attitude is a huge part of the problem. Why are suburbanites responsible to "lift a finger".... we come down to spend money at various venues, which is a good thing for Detroit. I am responsible to see that my own city is operated well. Why am I also responsible for Detroit? When you blame others, you relinquish power to correct the situation.
I'm old enough to remember Mayor Cavanaugh and the great neighborhoods and shopping venues. Compare the city after the reign of Coleman Young. Detroit blacks need to look for means of realizing their own personal success and accomplishments instead of living vicariously through famous and/or powerful blacks. Once they acquired a black mayor, they figured they had arrived. Unfortunately, he was corrupt and sold Detroit down the river for personal gain. Many STILL defend him as great! Detroit is its own worst enemy. Archer tried to get things back on track, but he was considered "white" by a lot of Detroiters, when in reality he knew that education and jobs are what get people ahead, not welfare.
Enter the flashy, powerful-looking, young Kilpatrick and entourage and Detroiters were again enthralled--and looked the other way when their hero was doing another Young maneuver.... $24,990 Escalade (so it didn't have to be approved), affairs, contract deals, deals for family, etc. and yet he won a second term. I joined a lot of suburbanites, declaring, "If they voted him in, they deserve whatever they get." But in my heart, I mourned.... such a waste of thousands of young minds.... because I knew what was in store. Hopelessness moved into the eyes of so many. Their identity was tied up in Kwame, so his deeds, as we learned more and more of them, were demoralizing.
While my family members are hoping for acceptance to the right college, my black friends, in and adjacent to Detroit, are still praying that their sons will reach 25 alive and without having been in jail.
As for safe neighborhoods, if it were in my power I would send some of our police. We apparently have so many that they have time to be the primary revenue collectors for our city. Others must be doing double duty arresting people, though, because Michigan spent more on maintaining its incarcerated residents last year than on the whole educational system. They have to generate enough money to support our courts, jails, and prisons. One in 29 Michigan residents is in prison, in jail, on parole, or on probation. Those are the state stats--what must it be for Detroit?
The change will have to begin with a transformation in the young people. The newest generation will have to be on board with the mindset that education is for everyone and that gaining an education is not "being white". Education and a real job or business is the way for EVERYBODY in this Constitutional Republic. Many young people (regardless of race) actually think socialism would be better. They don't understand the fundamental superiority of America's system of government when properly instituted by an educated electorate:
Until they realize that welfare is "re-slavery" and that they have unwittingly been living on Uncle Sam's plantation,
[url]http://www.popmodal.com/video/98/Emancipation-Revelation-Revolution--The-Story-of-Black-America[/url]
there won't be hope or change. If they don't start listening to people like Dr. Walter Williams, Star Parker (C.U.R.E.), Bill Cosby, Alan Keyes, Henry Cain, (and how about our own Akindele Akinyemi), instead of Rev. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, there is absolutely no hope and change coming Detroit's way. Here are some websites for moving forward:
With respect to the suburbs helping, groups are ALWAYS going down from the suburbs (mostly churches) to clean up areas of Detroit. We thought one young man was coming to help us, but he came to ask for money. One lady stopped to express her embarrassment that people had to come down to do what the locals should have enough pride to do.
Detroit pastors have a great mission available before them. Since Christians just believe in two types of people, saved and unsaved, the frequent racial hurdles can be overcome.
I think more alliances between churches in and outside the city would be a very powerful start back to a safe, successful, thriving city.
Change comes from the inside out.
Last edited by DrDawn; 02-27-2011 at 08:38 PM..
Reason: Link clarity
Just a thought as to what might help Detroit and your state. Detroit is known for Making Michigan known as the "industrial heart" of the US. maybe your state should lower buisness and factory taxes so that more Manufacturing or whatever buisnesses or industries want to move in could/would. Idk if the taxes are high in Detroit, ive heard they are which makes me say that. Alot of buisnesses who want to keep a US workforce either can't and spread down south and open new factories or simply go overseas. If the taxes are that high lowering them could bring new companies and jobs in you guys have plenty of closed down abandoned factories out there from what ive heard and seen in pics of the city. It would cost buisnesses who are looking to expand much less to either just reopen one of those or reopen and fix them up as opposed to moving down south and building new factories.
- Yes, Detroit does need more police, there aren't more criminals in Detroit than in other cities (how many Detroiters do you know anyway!), they just get away with more because there are not enough cops!!
-You expect drug dealers to crack down on themselves? Good one! With the inadequate policing, Detroit is a paradise for dope dealers!
Anybody who lives in the suburbs and doesn't care about what happens in the city should move out SE Michigan, because the Bloomfields and Troys and Cantons wouldn't exsist without the city!
1. Criminals need to quit committing crime. If criminals didn't commit crime, or only committed crime against other criminals, there would be less fear or Detroit. (This sounds soooo Pollyanna the way I said it, but it's true.)
2. Schools may be rotten, but parents need to make sure their children go to school and do their homework. Throwing a billion dollars at schools won't fix it. It's the parents who neglect their duties that cause a lot of the achievement problem, not leaking roofs in schools and standardized tests that supposedly handicap minorities.
3. True, Troy, et al, would not exist without Detroit, but aside from perhaps seven restaurants I occasionally visit and an occasional trip to a Detroit Secretary of State office (the Vernor/Central one was surprisingly quick the two times I've been there) I don't need Detroit for a single thing, and neither do most suburbanites.
4. I fantasize every day about leaving SE MI. I can't for several reasons, but it's fun to dream.
Detroits sorry condition is a huge anchor upon all of us here in Michigan. As a citizen of this state I know Im fed up with what goes on down there, and Im ready to see it fixed. Here is what I think should be done.
1. Detroit is a zone of near anarchy run by a hopelessly corrupt city goverment, so I believe the state should revoke its city charter. Basically the City of Detroit should cease to exist as a legal political entity. The current leaders of Detroit have lost the right to have a say in how that city is to be rebuilt and restored. Instead the city should be run by the State of Michigan, or by a metropolitan authority set up by the state and suburbs of southeast Michigan. Do this and we can install new administrators, set up a legitimate police force so the city can be made safe.
2. With a legitimate city goverment and police force the criminal element of the city should be removed from the streets. Curfews should be set up for anyone under the age of 21 after dark. A heavy police presence will be necessary to do this, and the national gaurd may also be needed. A safe city is one where people will feel like investing in.
3. The city needs to be condensed into a smaller more manageable area. Largely abandoned areas need to be cleared of buildings, and those left living there should be made offers to buy them out. They can then be encouraged to move into more viable parts of the city with finacial incentives. The city is 1/3 abandoned and if this area can be demolished it will increase the value of the remaining homes and businesses. It will also clear areas that were formely used as drug dens or places for homeless people to linger. A leaner city will be more eficeint to provide city services like water, sewer police and fire too.
4. Infrasturcute needs to be rebuilt in the condensed area of the city. Crumbling streets and bridges will never encourage new business or new residents to move in.
5. Schools need to be physically improved, made safe and school age children must be forced to actually attend school. Truancy laws should be enforced, and any parent whos child fails to attend school should face punishment. An ignorant population can never be sucessful.
6.Large tax breaks should be made available to any OUT OF STATE company wishing to relocate to Detroit. Any in state company wishing to expand in Detroit should also receive a tax break. State officials should court foriegn car makers to build there, a Honda or Toyota plant would do wonders for the city.
7. This plan would cost a great deal of money, and the State would have to raise the money somehow to do this. A special tax may have to be levied to pay for it, and this should be taken to the people of Michigan as a ballot reforendum. If the state controlled the process, the people of this state may be willing to pay for this if they see a solid plan for sucess. We are all tired of the conditions in Detroit and the negative image it has brought our whole state.
8. This plan would take years to complete, and when it was finished a new city goverment should be created. In my opinion if the inner suburbs where politically united with the inner city it would give this new city goverment a much more solid base to run on. It would also help to remove the great racial divides between city and suburb. The suburbanites also must be willing to one day again take responsibility for the conditions in the city.
I know this is a radical sounding plan, but in my opinion its the only way it will ever be fixed. Many of the current residents of Detroit are bitter and hateful, they would never go along with this if they had a say via the City of Detroit. State oversight is the only way, it will take outsiders to clean out the corruption, and to lure new investments and people into the city. I would love to live to see our states largest city be a nice place again. I just wish someone had the political will to stand up and do something about this statewide embarassment
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