Detroit forum: keep it clean (closing, live, shops)

[magellan]

I'm getting numerous complaints almost daily about people making personal attacks in the Detroit forum. I myself find certain topics to be passionate issues for me, so perhaps I too have been guilty of it. But I get tired of closing threads or deleting posts or having to say something. I never really signed up for this moderating gig to be full time! And I don't get paid!

I generally think all of you are good people (except a few of you, j/k) , so work on discussing issues and not tearing each other down. Research the topic, read articles before you comment, try to have an open mind.

And the next person who uses terminology like "straw man" or "you liberals" or "right wing nuts" will be suspended, no warning (this is your warning).

Other members are telling me they are staying away from the forum because of the non-stop attacks, which is not the goal of this forum to begin with.

Thanks.

[Tekkie]

I can appreciate this. I will do what I can to post in a more productive, thought-provoking way.

I know I can get pretty passionate about some of the topics here myself. Hopefully I'm not seen as a trouble-maker though. I've addressed the issue of bashing and trolling on this forum (not particularly Dertroit's forum) and generally my criticisms or suggestions get shot down by some of the other members, as if they don't see it as being an issue. But I know I'm not the only one who feels that way. That's why I've taken a hiatus from most of the forums, besides this one and the Denver forum (I think the local forums tend to be a little more tame). Glad you are addressing a real issue here.

[Retroit]

I guess this means I should say "goodbye"?

[Tekkie]

Originally Posted by Retroit

I guess this means I should say "goodbye"?

Your posts are generally good, Retroit. One thing I've noticed as of late is that you tend to inject a lot of political rantings in your posts (some of which I agree with and some which I disagree with). Clearly that is going to rile people up and take away from the discussion at hand. If you leave that stuff out, your posts are otherwise pretty legit and can be pretty well thought out (compared to the average). If you want to get into some deep (yet meaningless) political discussions, the Politics forum is great for that. It's also great that we can all avoid the demagoguery that goes on there by simply not visiting that forum.

[magellan]

Today is a new day. I'm not holding anything anyone said previously against them. Not that you guys did anything wrong anyway, just sayin.

Chances are if all you guys and gals met in a pub and discussed these things over pints, you'd probably be friends. Like those old guys who talk politics in old barber shops, every week. The anonymity of these forums gives people the impression they can say things they wouldn't say if the person were across the table.

Carry on.

[zthatzmanz28]

Thar'll be no more mud slingin' in this town. Time the convo was elevated from the gutter to curb level...

[Indentured Servant]

To say the least, I am refreshed by your moderating style. I really appreciate the way you explained things...the fact that you were getting complaints, the nature of the complaints, and that people were staying away. I also appreciate you clearly defining the term and terminology that is offensive. To me, that is good moderating. Now, I may disagree with the subjective nature of it.....but I appreciate you at least defining things and letting us know before you acted. Forum guidelines are just too subjective and what offends one person might not offend another.

For the record, I have never complained about anyone's post. I definitely think that expletives and personal attacks (when they are clearly so) are off limits. However, the consequence of censorship is that people do not get to see how people really are. If people cannot express their true feelings, but simply write things in a manner so that is "acceptable", then people do not get to see the REAL SIDE of the public. In other words, people are forced to be phony.

That is why so many people think so many people are better than they really are. Everyone is forced to present their good side in public.....so everyone appears good. Then when someone says that a lot of people are bad.....other people who read all the cleaned up commentary or hear the cleaned up rhetoric of others don't agree...because they do not witness it. All the bigots are forced to present themselves respectfully in public and on forums, leaving the impression that there are a lot less bigots and such. Then when a person like me says......its because of so much bigotry. Then others will say..."what bigotry".....I don't hear or read any bigotry. Its you that is the problem. That is because the bigots are forced underground by social pressure that censors their thoughts from appearing in public. However, they may have their rhetoric repressed, but not their actions.

Censorship is a double edged sword.

[Retroit]

Thank you, Tekkie. I enjoy your company as well. It's just very hard to discuss things without bringing up politics. Politics plays a very large part in a city, especially Detroit and metro Detroit. How do we discuss a comment by LBP without mentioning politics? How do we discuss the history of Detroit without mentioning politics?

Is this forum going to degenerate into a bunch of "where should I live?" and "who has the best pizza?" threads? If that's all the moderators want it to become, then please deny me from any further access to it. I want to discuss the issues and point out blame where blame is due.

If people are so easily offended, then why are they here? If you open up a political thread to read, what do you expect to find?

Would it be possible to designate a thread in the title bar as a "Political:" or "Offensive:" thread so those who are easily offended don't open it up and those who are not offended can open it up and go at it?

Personally, I enjoy when a person calls me names because it is an indication that they have not found fault in my argument and have to resort to attacking me personally.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

To say the least, I am refreshed by your moderating style. I really appreciate the way you explained things...the fact that you were getting complaints, the nature of the complaints, and that people were staying away. I also appreciate you clearly defining the term and terminology that is offensive. To me, that is good moderating. Now, I may disagree with the subjective nature of it.....but I appreciate you at least defining things and letting us know before you acted. Forum guidelines are just too subjective and what offends one person might not offend another.

For the record, I have never complained about anyone's post. I definitely think that expletives and personal attacks (when they are clearly so) are off limits. However, the consequence of censorship is that people do not get to see how people really are. If people cannot express their true feelings, but simply write things in a manner so that is "acceptable", then people do not get to see the REAL SIDE of the public. In other words, people are forced to be phony.

That is why so many people think so many people are better than they really are. Everyone is forced to present their good side in public.....so everyone appears good. Then when someone says that a lot of people are bad.....other people who read all the cleaned up commentary or hear the cleaned up rhetoric of others don't agree...because they do not witness it. All the bigots are forced to present themselves respectfully in public and on forums, leaving the impression that there are a lot less bigots and such. Then when a person like me says......its because of so much bigotry. Then others will say..."what bigotry".....I don't hear or read any bigotry. Its you that is the problem. That is because the bigots are forced underground by social pressure that censors their thoughts from appearing in public. However, they may have their rhetoric repressed, but not their actions.

Censorship is a double edged sword.

Definitely, and I appreciate your feedback. I really believe that most of the actual "bigots" don't last very long on a forum like the city-specific ones. They tend to gravitate to the fight clubs (the political discussion forums or even un-moderated forums outside of city-data). Most of the comments I've seen on here that touch on racial or cultural issues probably could be worded better, but don't actually come from a core of bigotry. More of a misunderstanding, insensitive terminology, or the feeling of being pushed into a corner. Unfortunately if you don't load your post up with smiley's, people can take comments the wrong way.

And race is a big issue behind many of the topics discussed here. You can't really avoid it (and that's not what is being asked).

We all care about this State and Detroit or we wouldn't be here every day. If you set the goal that every day on here someone will learn something they didn't know before, from you, then the forum will be a better place to hang out. The opportunity for in-depth discourse on issues is much greater here than in places like Facebook or Twitter. Don't squander it for sure.

And I do have to get some work done so I'm signing off for a while.

[Tekkie]

Originally Posted by Retroit

Thank you, Tekkie. I enjoy your company as well. It's just very hard to discuss things without bringing up politics. Politics plays a very large part in a city, especially Detroit and metro Detroit. How do we discuss a comment by LBP without mentioning politics? How do we discuss the history of Detroit without mentioning politics?

Is this forum going to degenerate into a bunch of "where should I live?" and "who has the best pizza?" threads? If that's all the moderators want it to become, then please deny me from any further access to it. I want to discuss the issues and point out blame where blame is due.

If people are so easily offended, then why are they here? If you open up a political thread to read, what do you expect to find?

Would it be possible to designate a thread in the title bar as a "Political:" or "Offensive:" thread so those who are easily offended don't open it up and those who are not offended can open it up and go at it?

Personally, I enjoy when a person calls me names because it is an indication that they have not found fault in my argument and have to resort to attacking me personally.

For example, you can critique a particular political policy or figure without degrading everyone who aligns with a political party or philosophical mindset. When someone refers to "liberals" or "conservatives" as if they are all stupid and have contributed nothing beneficial to society, it seems naive and arrogant to me. I know a lot of very smart liberals and conservatives who all have good ideas and even some impractical ideas. I will call them out regardless. I have no affiliation with any of the political parties in this country. I have some conservative views as well as some progressive views. If it seems like a practical or logical idea, I'll support it regardless of how it's categorized (liberal, conservative, libertarian, socialist, etc.). I strongly believe that more people should adopt this type of mindset and stop being so darn beholden to one linear way of thinking.