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You could just as easily show pics of new development.
Detroit is a blank canvas for anyone with an agenda. Not being a major media center it doesn't defend itself well against outsider career-conscious "journalists", some of whom get national exposure.
I'm always tempted to pass up links, but I liked this one. The accompanying reader comments show the usual outsider ignorance - and it IS pertinent to the thread at least.
I have to agree with youse Kimba01, all that civil rights stuff that happened 300 years ago should have settled the matter. What is the timeline again? Thomas Jefferson and his slaves had a party on Rosa Parks Blvd celebrating the issue of the civil war. The one thing they all revered is the holy constitution. Redlining and busing issues must have happened circa 1799 or thereabouts if my memory serves me well.
I hate to be reminded of stuff that happened a hundred years before the revolution to fit someone's uppity agenda. Pull up your bootstraps Indentured Servant, you've still got a lot of explainin' to do.
250 years from now some of their descendants will be arguing with an AA, face to face on a holographic forum, about how the AA continues to harp over things that happened 300 years ago.
The strategy is to never admit the contemporary wrong doings and their impact and never to admit any wrong doings where the victims and perpetrators are still alive. The strategy is to not aknowlege wrongs and their impact while anyone is living, but rather, wait until they are all dead so that one can argue that everyone is dead and gone who were involved and hence there should be no restitition or reconciliation.
When all the peolple of the Jim Crow era aparthied die off, then, and only then will some folks feel safe enough to focus on it for the horrific injustice that it was. Then they can say......."When are you going to stop harping on Jim Crow......that was 100 years ago. It was terrible but there is nothing that can be done because all the victims have died. I am not Jim Crow and we had nothing to do with it."
Its all predictable when you understand the objectives.
250 years from now some of their descendants will be arguing with an AA, face to face on a holographic forum, about how the AA continues to harp over things that happened 300 years ago.
The strategy is to never admit the contemporary wrong doings and their impact and never to admit any wrong doings where the victims and perpetrators are still alive. The strategy is to not aknowlege wrongs and their impact while anyone is living, but rather, wait until they are all dead so that one can argue that everyone is dead and gone who were involved and hence there should be no restitition or reconciliation.
When all the peolple of the Jim Crow era aparthied die off, then, and only then will some folks feel safe enough to focus on it for the horrific injustice that it was. Then they can say......."When are you going to stop harping on Jim Crow......that was 100 years ago. It was terrible but there is nothing that can be done because all the victims have died. I am not Jim Crow and we had nothing to do with it."
Its all predictable when you understand the objectives.
Yep, I'll give you a short quotation from the Ku Klux Klan entry in Wikipedia.
This paragraph is about DW Griffiths blockbuster "Masterpiece" The Birth of a Nation. This extremely important film was a major reason for a rebirth of the Klan in 1915. You witness the endorsement and subsequent denial of president WWilson. This is ancient history of course, I am only giving this as an example of the repeated hypocrisy. This exists everywhere by the way, it prevails in all nations, all cultures; the US are not on trial here. I will give you another pop culture example that refers to AA deficiency; What comes to mind when you hear the following expressions; Trailer Trash and White Trash. White trash automatically refers to blacks and the inferior position hence trashiness of AA's. Sorry but that's it, it's a given. Nothing to do about it. It just creeps into consciousness anytime your kids or mine watch Family Guy etc...
As for trailer trash;
Same difference, duh;
What makes someone living in a trailer park become trash?
No wonder the craze for oversized houses nobody could afford were peddled en masse to folks deeming they were ready for the big plunge. There is no end to the silliness, adding layers of McMansions and cheap dreams to a place like Las Vegas which for the most part, wouldnt have a hope or a prayer of surviving outside the greasy money from losers à la mode.
Quote:
The Birth of a Nation
Director D. W. Griffith's The Birth of a Nation glorified the original Klan. His film was based on the book and play The Clansman and the book The Leopard's Spots, both by Thomas Dixon, Jr.. Dixon said his purpose was "to revolutionize northern sentiment by a presentation of history that would transform every man in my audience into a good Democrat!" The film created a nationwide Klan craze. At the official premier in Atlanta, members of the Klan rode up and down the street in front of the theater.[61]
Much of the modern Klan's iconography, including the standardized white costume and the lighted cross, are derived from the film. Its imagery was based on Dixon's romanticized concept of old England and Scotland, as portrayed in the novels and poetry of Sir Walter Scott. The film's influence and popularity were enhanced by a widely reported endorsement by historian and U.S. President Woodrow Wilson.
The Birth of a Nation included extensive quotations from Woodrow Wilson's History of the American People, as if to give it a stronger basis. After seeing the film in a special White House screening, Wilson allegedly said, "It is like writing history with lightning, and my only regret is that it is all so terribly true."[62] Given Wilson's views on race and the Klan, his statement was taken as supportive of the film. In later correspondence with Griffith, Wilson confirmed his enthusiasm. Wilson's remarks immediately became controversial. Wilson tried to remain aloof, but finally, on April 30, he issued a non-denial denial.[63] The historian Arthur Link quoted comments by Wilson's aide, Joseph Tumulty: "the President was entirely unaware of the nature of the play before it was presented and at no time has expressed his approbation of it."[64]
Yep, I'll give you a short quotation from the Ku Klux Klan entry in Wikipedia.
This paragraph is about DW Griffiths blockbuster "Masterpiece" The Birth of a Nation. This extremely important film was a major reason for a rebirth of the Klan in 1915. You witness the endorsement and subsequent denial of president WWilson. This is ancient history of course, I am only giving this as an example of the repeated hypocrisy. This exists everywhere by the way, it prevails in all nations, all cultures; the US are not on trial here. I will give you another pop culture example that refers to AA deficiency; What comes to mind when you hear the following expressions; Trailer Trash and White Trash. White trash automatically refers to blacks and the inferior position hence trashiness of AA's. Sorry but that's it, it's a given. Nothing to do about it. It just creeps into consciousness anytime your kids or mine watch Family Guy etc...
As for trailer trash;
Same difference, duh;
What makes someone living in a trailer park become trash?
No wonder the craze for oversized houses nobody could afford were peddled en masse to folks deeming they were ready for the big plunge. There is no end to the silliness, adding layers of McMansions and cheap dreams to a place like Las Vegas which for the most part, wouldnt have a hope or a prayer of surviving outside the greasy money from losers à la mode.
One thing that people often don't know or will not admit is that Michigan once had the largest clan membership. Maybe they have molded into the modern Michigan Militia types.
I find Detroit completely fascinating. That Detroityes site is fun, and so are a lot of the older posts at Detroitblog.com.
Sometimes I tell the husband that we ought to pack it up, buy some dirt cheap real estate down there, raise some dairy goats and vegetables and chickens among the urban decay.
The weather would be much milder than my current town in AK... a geezer's paradise, right!?
Obviously, you have never lived among a population whose males view the elderly as prey. Nor have you lived in a predatory culture, where weakness of any kind is watched for (so that someone can prevail against you...rob you, torture you, rape you...or if you're a young female, 'groom' you to become a drug-addicted prostitute).
Imagine having anxiety about opening your front door to reach into the mailbox, because someone may appear from nowhere, to push you inside and torture you until you reveal where you hid "the money". That's reality for the elderly in many American cities, now.
Detroit's middle classes fled the city because they were being targeted for robbery and extreme violence. It had little to do with 'intolerance' or 'the economy'. It had everything to do with the problem demographic. When your kids cannot walk down the street without being attacked...or even be safe at school, and when anyone perceived as elderly is unable to go outside in broad daylight, then it's pretty much an untenable situation. That climate began (in pockets) about the time of the first Detroit riots. That's why people fled. Otherwise, the city would have reinvented itself along with changes in the Economy, as did Minneapolis.
Today, people ARE moving into the city: Muslims and Illegal Immigrants from south of the border. Muslims account for the recent upsurge in 'Whites' moving into the city (people from Northern Africa and the Middle East are counted as White). If what I've recently read is true, Muslims and Illegals are roughly each a third of the population. The other third is a permanent welfare class, who subsist on government transfer payments.
As for raising things on the abandoned land, remember that the soil may be full of toxins (Lead from car exhaust, Chlordane used to control Termites...). And in any event, be aware that populations such as Detroit's have many desperate males who will scale any fence, and strip your fruit trees as soon as they are ripe, steal any produce they perceive as having any value, and kill your Goats for fun...possibly after molesting them. Detroit's demographics share certain similarities with Mississippi's. The news there, this week, includes the arrest of a man who was sneaking in and raping someone else's Show Hogs (he gave them VD). The police set up cameras, after the Vet noticed the Hogs had...um...infections...
I had friends in New Orleans, who were unable to enjoy anything they grew in their fenced-in Fauburg Marigny garden, because someone, somehow, was always watching. Somehow, someone knew when whatever was ripe or ready for harvest...and it disappeared. That was the norm, even pre-Katrina. I knew LOTS of people who would plant flowers or shrubs in their front yards, go inside for something, and come back minutes later, to find the plants gone...with little trails of dirt leading down the sidewalk. That sort of thing was what people talked about at parties. When they'd come up to Jackson to weather hurricanes, that's what you'd hear about, before, a day or so later, you'd hear about the more spectacular rape/robbery/beatings, and who knew which Tulane coed who'd been murdered that year "Oh yeah! Shari's the one who was strangled with her Telephone cord, right?" New Orleans is Paradise, compared to Detroit.
I've been told that efforts to grow produce in Detroit have proved equally frustrating.
Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 02-03-2011 at 10:29 AM..
Reason: and...
Obviously, you have never lived among a population whose males view the elderly as prey. Nor have you lived in a predatory culture, where weakness of any kind is watched for (so that someone can prevail against you...rob you, torture you, rape you...or if you're a young female, 'groom' you to become a drug-addicted prostitute).
Imagine having anxiety about opening your front door to reach into the mailbox, because someone may appear from nowhere, to push you inside and torture you until you reveal where you hid "the money". That's reality for the elderly in many American cities, now. Yeah....yeah....thats the ticket.
Detroit's middle classes fled the city because they were being targeted for robbery and extreme violence. It had little to do with 'intolerance' or 'the economy'. It had everything to do with the problem demographic. When your kids cannot walk down the street without being attacked...or even be safe at school, and when anyone perceived as elderly is unable to go outside in broad daylight, then it's pretty much an untenable situation. That climate began (in pockets) about the time of the first Detroit riots. That's why people fled. Otherwise, the city would have reinvented itself along with changes in the Economy, as did Minneapolis. Yeah....Yeah....thats the ticket!
Today, people ARE moving into the city: Muslims and Illegal Immigrants from south of the border. Muslims account for the recent upsurge in 'Whites' moving into the city (people from Northern Africa and the Middle East are counted as White). If what I've recently read is true, Muslims and Illegals are roughly each a third of the population. The other third is a permanent welfare class, who subsist on government transfer payments. Yeah....yeah....thats the ticket.
As for raising things on the abandoned land, remember that the soil may be full of toxins (Lead from car exhaust, Chlordane used to control Termites...). And in any event, be aware that populations such as Detroit's have many desperate males who will scale any fence, and strip your fruit trees as soon as they are ripe, steal any produce they perceive as having any value, and kill your Goats for fun...possibly after molesting them. Detroit's demographics share certain similarities with Mississippi's. The news there, this week, includes the arrest of a man who was sneaking in and raping someone else's Show Hogs (he gave them VD). The police set up cameras, after the Vet noticed the Hogs had...um...infections... Yeah....yeah....thats the ticket.
I had friends in New Orleans, who were unable to enjoy anything they grew in their fenced-in Fauburg Marigny garden, because someone, somehow, was always watching. Somehow, someone knew when whatever was ripe or ready for harvest...and it disappeared. That was the norm, even pre-Katrina. I knew LOTS of people who would plant flowers or shrubs in their front yards, go inside for something, and come back minutes later, to find the plants gone...with little trails of dirt leading down the sidewalk. That sort of thing was what people talked about at parties. When they'd come up to Jackson to weather hurricanes, that's what you'd hear about, before, a day or so later, you'd hear about the more spectacular rape/robbery/beatings, and who knew which Tulane coed who'd been murdered that year "Oh yeah! Shari's the one who was strangled with her Telephone cord, right?" New Orleans is Paradise, compared to Detroit. Yeah....yeah....thats the ticket.
I've been told that efforts to grow produce in Detroit have proved equally frustrating.
You would make a great fiction writer......REALLY. Your imagination and creativity is born from hyperbole.
It matters less for individuals than it matters for groups. It can have profound implications for groups if, for example, the group is perceived as being intellectually inferior. It’s EXTREMLY dangerous to have widely held beliefs that a race, is for example, intellectually inferior due to genetics. People might then rationalize that if there are problems in the group related to economic inequality, then there is nothing that can be done about it policy wise, instead, believing that economic racial inequality is simple the “Natural order” of the superior rising above the inferior.
Obviously there are a lot more opportunities to make money using one’s mind than there is in athletics. If one group is favored and seen as superior for sports while another group is favored as superior for intellectual careers, then the group that is favored for the area with the fewest opportunities will be hurt the most. There are probably no more than a thousand jobs where one can make money professionally in sports and make enough to support a family in the US. On the other hand there are millions of jobs where the brain is valued and if one group is disfavored and seen as inferior they will be disfavored by employers.
It even spills into the public school system funding. Why increase millage or spend extra dollars trying to bring up the performance of kids who belong to a race that is believed to the intellectually inferior race, notwithstanding their athletic ability? They will look at is a permanent subsidy that is a waste of tax payers’ dollars. Guess what, many people believe this already.
I don’t get into personal things about what I am doing or what my dissenting forum member is or is not doing. The reason being is that the debate is not a personal debate but a debate about the big picture of how things are. I cannot demonstrate that I am a microcosm for what should or should not happen or what is and what not the problem is.
I respect you for not sharing personal things, it was more a general question than personal, per se.
If a group is percieved as inferior, if that group CARES enough not to be, then they must do what is needed to prove that. If not to the world, to themselves and those they care about. To continue to live the inferior life and do those things that continue to prove they are inferior serves no purpose. There are those who have risen above that perception and those who will continue to blame the past. By inferior I mean to continue bad behavior. I agree that the group that was long seen as inferior may have a harder road than those thought to be superior, but it can happen and it has happened, many times over. I do know that it is not easy to overcome as I am a woman and as such, have been considered a sub-species also. Women have had to fight for their equal rights also and are still not considered equal. But, someone had to start it and we have come a long way. I do not think there are women who were basically treated as slaves and still continue to scream that they were so oppressed in the past that they need retribution now. I am sure there are some, but overall women are just pushing forward.
I guess I just don't understand how, in today's modern world, anyone cannot rise above that. So, my thought is that those who allow theirselves to be stuck in the past allow the past to be their justification for all of their ill behavior. People can and do change.
Obviously, you have never lived among a population whose males view the elderly as prey. Nor have you lived in a predatory culture, where weakness of any kind is watched for (so that someone can prevail against you...rob you, torture you, rape you...or if you're a young female, 'groom' you to become a drug-addicted prostitute).
Imagine having anxiety about opening your front door to reach into the mailbox, because someone may appear from nowhere, to push you inside and torture you until you reveal where you hid "the money". That's reality for the elderly in many American cities, now.
Detroit's middle classes fled the city because they were being targeted for robbery and extreme violence. It had little to do with 'intolerance' or 'the economy'. It had everything to do with the problem demographic. When your kids cannot walk down the street without being attacked...or even be safe at school, and when anyone perceived as elderly is unable to go outside in broad daylight, then it's pretty much an untenable situation. That climate began (in pockets) about the time of the first Detroit riots. That's why people fled. Otherwise, the city would have reinvented itself along with changes in the Economy, as did Minneapolis.
Today, people ARE moving into the city: Muslims and Illegal Immigrants from south of the border. Muslims account for the recent upsurge in 'Whites' moving into the city (people from Northern Africa and the Middle East are counted as White). If what I've recently read is true, Muslims and Illegals are roughly each a third of the population. The other third is a permanent welfare class, who subsist on government transfer payments.
As for raising things on the abandoned land, remember that the soil may be full of toxins (Lead from car exhaust, Chlordane used to control Termites...). And in any event, be aware that populations such as Detroit's have many desperate males who will scale any fence, and strip your fruit trees as soon as they are ripe, steal any produce they perceive as having any value, and kill your Goats for fun...possibly after molesting them. Detroit's demographics share certain similarities with Mississippi's. The news there, this week, includes the arrest of a man who was sneaking in and raping someone else's Show Hogs (he gave them VD). The police set up cameras, after the Vet noticed the Hogs had...um...infections...
I had friends in New Orleans, who were unable to enjoy anything they grew in their fenced-in Fauburg Marigny garden, because someone, somehow, was always watching. Somehow, someone knew when whatever was ripe or ready for harvest...and it disappeared. That was the norm, even pre-Katrina. I knew LOTS of people who would plant flowers or shrubs in their front yards, go inside for something, and come back minutes later, to find the plants gone...with little trails of dirt leading down the sidewalk. That sort of thing was what people talked about at parties. When they'd come up to Jackson to weather hurricanes, that's what you'd hear about, before, a day or so later, you'd hear about the more spectacular rape/robbery/beatings, and who knew which Tulane coed who'd been murdered that year "Oh yeah! Shari's the one who was strangled with her Telephone cord, right?" New Orleans is Paradise, compared to Detroit.
I've been told that efforts to grow produce in Detroit have proved equally frustrating.
I too Indentured Servant have a fond appreciation of creative lore.
I wonder if sometimes Gloria wakes up in the middle of the night contemplating what would happen if she were hit by a non-demographic bus
driver.
An EMS team featuring two demographics rushing her to an ER.
Then as Gloria wakes in recovery she is being tended to by two demographic nurses and a very dark demographic doctor telling her everything will be alright. I like happy ends, don't you?
The alternate ending is she dies and wakes up in New Orleans.
Obviously, you have never lived among a population whose males view the elderly as prey. Nor have you lived in a predatory culture, where weakness of any kind is watched for (so that someone can prevail against you...rob you, torture you, rape you...or if you're a young female, 'groom' you to become a drug-addicted prostitute).
Imagine having anxiety about opening your front door to reach into the mailbox, because someone may appear from nowhere, to push you inside and torture you until you reveal where you hid "the money". That's reality for the elderly in many American cities, now.
Detroit's middle classes fled the city because they were being targeted for robbery and extreme violence. It had little to do with 'intolerance' or 'the economy'. It had everything to do with the problem demographic. When your kids cannot walk down the street without being attacked...or even be safe at school, and when anyone perceived as elderly is unable to go outside in broad daylight, then it's pretty much an untenable situation. That climate began (in pockets) about the time of the first Detroit riots. That's why people fled. Otherwise, the city would have reinvented itself along with changes in the Economy, as did Minneapolis.
Today, people ARE moving into the city: Muslims and Illegal Immigrants from south of the border. Muslims account for the recent upsurge in 'Whites' moving into the city (people from Northern Africa and the Middle East are counted as White). If what I've recently read is true, Muslims and Illegals are roughly each a third of the population. The other third is a permanent welfare class, who subsist on government transfer payments.
As for raising things on the abandoned land, remember that the soil may be full of toxins (Lead from car exhaust, Chlordane used to control Termites...). And in any event, be aware that populations such as Detroit's have many desperate males who will scale any fence, and strip your fruit trees as soon as they are ripe, steal any produce they perceive as having any value, and kill your Goats for fun...possibly after molesting them. Detroit's demographics share certain similarities with Mississippi's. The news there, this week, includes the arrest of a man who was sneaking in and raping someone else's Show Hogs (he gave them VD). The police set up cameras, after the Vet noticed the Hogs had...um...infections...
I had friends in New Orleans, who were unable to enjoy anything they grew in their fenced-in Fauburg Marigny garden, because someone, somehow, was always watching. Somehow, someone knew when whatever was ripe or ready for harvest...and it disappeared. That was the norm, even pre-Katrina. I knew LOTS of people who would plant flowers or shrubs in their front yards, go inside for something, and come back minutes later, to find the plants gone...with little trails of dirt leading down the sidewalk. That sort of thing was what people talked about at parties. When they'd come up to Jackson to weather hurricanes, that's what you'd hear about, before, a day or so later, you'd hear about the more spectacular rape/robbery/beatings, and who knew which Tulane coed who'd been murdered that year "Oh yeah! Shari's the one who was strangled with her Telephone cord, right?" New Orleans is Paradise, compared to Detroit.
I've been told that efforts to grow produce in Detroit have proved equally frustrating.
Detroit is a blank canvas for anyone with an agenda. Not being a major media center it doesn't defend itself well against outsider career-conscious "journalists", some of whom get national exposure.
I'm always tempted to pass up links, but I liked this one. The accompanying reader comments show the usual outsider ignorance - and it IS pertinent to the thread at least.
I'm glad you enjoyed the article. I have been getting annoyed with all the picutres as urban decay, it gets old after awhile.
As for the comments after the article, Vice magazine is made for angry hipsters.
I wish I were still in Michigan sometimes because there are still some people there who genuinely love it and want to improve it.
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I do not think there are women who were basically treated as slaves and still continue to scream that they were so oppressed in the past that they need retribution now. I am sure there are some, but overall women are just pushing forward. 
