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I have been traveling W Fort Street for miles in both directions on streetview and it's nothing but old abandoned factories, empty stores, abandoned or burned down houses with a single house still inhabited here and there, broken streets, rubble, empty lots where houses or buildings once used to be. It's like a ghost town, really bizarre. I don't think Detroit will ever recover from that but it should just try to scale down or give back what is left of it to nature.
Your can't-do attitude and lack of trust in other people's drive and abilities (projecting?), even in the face of contradictory current trends, is quite inspiring. Is that your aim - to inspire?
I know about Delray, settled by immigrants and one of Detroit's oldest neighborhoods in the midst of a grimy manufacturing community which was similar to bedraggled towns around the planet and which never became a tourist mecca. It was an interesting place with it's narrow European-style streets amidst the workers' housing.
Your can't-do attitude and lack of trust in other people's drive and abilities (projecting?), even in the face of contradictory current trends, is quite inspiring. Is that your aim - to inspire?
I know about Delray, settled by immigrants and one of Detroit's oldest neighborhoods in the midst of a grimy manufacturing community which was similar to bedraggled towns around the planet and which never became a tourist mecca. It was an interesting place with it's narrow European-style streets amidst the workers' housing.
I am at Linwood and Whitney now, a completely different part of Detroit, and it is the same here although different at the same time in the sense that it is mostly abandoned what used to be middle class residences instead of industrial complexes. Again, a really bizarre site with many empty lots and here and there well maintained houses in streets which are otherwise full of abandoned houses. I honestly don't see any current trends of improvement in those areas.
So I hear. In fact I have another tab open on a news story about $8 million dollar condos being built between Tribeca and West Village and west of SoHo. And another about how businesses are leaving because rent is too dang high. It's like NYC is the total opposite of Detroit in every way, almost.
It's like sure NYC is a world class city with all it has but dang can an average person even live there? At least Detroit is open to anyone willing to come.
It's horrible. I just read an article recently that said it's more expensive to live in Brooklyn than Manhattan. Rents, food, bills etc. Everything is HIGH!
I am at Linwood and Whitney now, a completely different part of Detroit, and it is the same here although different at the same time in the sense that it is mostly abandoned what used to be middle class residences instead of industrial complexes. Again, a really bizarre site with many empty lots and here and there well maintained houses in streets which are otherwise full of abandoned houses. I honestly don't see any current trends of improvement in those areas.
I grew up at Dexter and Davison and I would agree that at the moment there's nothing really indicative of growth, but it at least is stable unlike Delray which has a lot of factors against it. I'd also like to point out the areas around Dexter didn't fall apart until the housing bubble and when the auto companies were falling into bankruptcy during the 2000s.
During the 90s, the neighborhoods around Dexter and Linwood were doing quite well albeit with still moderately higher crime than other areas. Vacant homes weren't uncommon, but they weren't as numerous as they are now. There were many more business and of course more residents. Having been in the area throughout the recession, I saw it fall pretty hard as businesses and residents left, but imo that flight has stopped. I've seen new residents move in, but certainly not any rate faster than the homes that are vacant are being demolished. So to me, it just seems like that neighborhood has stabilized but not really declining or improving. I lean towards the optimistic side in thinking that they'll improve because the city government is slowly improving as well as just so many other things going on that simply weren't happening years ago, even before the recession.
I also believe the city to be a lot more dynamic than simply assuming all neighborhoods will decline or all will thrive. No city in the US has had that occur, especially any large city. Some Detroit neighborhoods will grow and thrive while others have outlived their original purpose and will either return to nature or be rebuilt with different uses. Not everything needs to be so black-and-white.
I have been traveling W Fort Street for miles in both directions on streetview and it's nothing but old abandoned factories, empty stores, abandoned or burned down houses with a single house still inhabited here and there, broken streets, rubble, empty lots where houses or buildings once used to be. It's like a ghost town, really bizarre. I don't think Detroit will ever recover from that but it should just try to scale down or give back what is left of it to nature.
You really pick some of the worst streets to make assumptions on. Fort street is in the most industrialized part of Detroit. In most areas you will find abandon storefronts on the major streets because obviously the city declined and businesses shut down. Even on the same street, there could be sections of little commercial activity and sections with alot of commercial activity.
As I and other posters have said, it's a city of pockets. You can drive on 8 mile for the entire 18.4 mile stretch of Detroit from Telegraph to I-94 and you still wouldn't be able to generalize the entire city based on what you saw during that drive. The same goes for just being in downtown or just being on the SW industrial riverfront or just being in Warrendale or just being in Osborn, ect. It's hard for some people who have been here all of their life to grasp the concept of how different parts of Detroit are.
When I was growing up, my neighborhood wasn't really all that blighted at all, it had some blocks but that was it. Our neighbors took pride in their homes and neighborhood, and this is why crime also wasn't a big problem, most of the things that happened was between people, we all looked out for eachother. We also had access to plenty of places within walking distance, I know because I had to walk to them, there were even 3 locally owned grocery stores within a mile from me on Harper. (BTW I'm 21 so this wasn't that long ago and it's still like this for the most part despite the hit it took during the recession). But when I grew up and started to explore the city more, I realized that there are both places much worse than my neighborhood and places much nicer all within the city. There are many parts of the city that people much older than me have never been to. This is why I have to laugh when an outsider tries to tell me "how Detroit is". Obviously Detroit has suffered a major decline but the thing alot of people don't realize is that there are two sides to Detroit's situation, and right now it is coming to a crossroads.
You really pick some of the worst streets to make assumptions on. Fort street is in the most industrialized part of Detroit. In most areas you will find abandon storefronts on the major streets because obviously the city declined and businesses shut down. Even on the same street, there could be sections of little commercial activity and sections with alot of commercial activity.
You are right that those areas are not quite as bad as Delray or Linwood street but still there is plenty of abandoned buildings and decay. Some of your links like the one to Michigan Avenue even shows a lot of urban decay and abandoned houses, especially in the side streets of Michigan Avenue. Again, I can travel for miles on Michigan Avenue and see plenty of decay and abandoned buildings and rubble and burned down houses in the side streets. I honestly don't see much of a recovery there either.
Admittedly, downtown Detroit does not even look that bad, for example the part where the new Tigers Stadium is. It pretty much looks like an average American city there.
You are right that those areas are not quite as bad as Delray or Linwood street but still there is plenty of abandoned buildings and decay. Some of your links like the one to Michigan Avenue even shows a lot of urban decay and abandoned houses, especially in the side streets of Michigan Avenue. Again, I can travel for miles on Michigan Avenue and see plenty of decay and abandoned buildings and rubble and burned down houses in the side streets. I honestly don't see much of a recovery there either.
Admittedly, downtown Detroit does not even look that bad, for example the part where the new Tigers Stadium is. It pretty much looks like an average American city there.
Well if you refer back to what I said before I showed you those areas I said "In most areas you will find abandon storefronts on the major streets because obviously the city declined and businesses shut down. Even on the same street, there could be sections of little commercial activity and sections with alot of commercial activity." In order for you to actually see recovery you have to know what the trend is in these neighborhoods. As I said, the entire city declined, Midtown is recovering but you can still find vacant buildings there. But it has to start somewhere. In order for a recovery to start, the decline had to slow down (which it did from a few years ago).
I do not know the answer but I can tell you about an experience I had once. I was working at an international airport, a plane passengers were waiting to board was searched by a large group of TSA officers and bomb sniffing dogs. It turns out one of the cleaning crew found a bullet on the plane. Guess where the plane had come in from? You guessed it Detriot.
So there was no crime, and since the plane couldn't possibly have been to anyplace else, that bullet had to come from Detroit - and if a bullet was found lying around, we must conclude that there was a Detroit murderer on board?
There are bullets in Detroit? An armed person was aboard who just had to be a Detroiter? Why not just spell out your conclusion? This line of "reasoning" is so typical of RW media.
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Originally Posted by drro
I think Detroit holds up well in the top three together with Camden and East. St. Louis. I just happened to watch the Crow last week and it's just surreal and eerie how Detroit is pictured in the movie. There is something fascinating about all the urban decay and crime. I have spend time in Chicago and I regret much not to have taken the drive to Detroit to see what it is like for real.
I know that Germany has converted its old decayed industrial Ruhr area into somewhat of a cultural and tourist destination with reasonable success. There are art exhibitions and the old mines and factories partly have been renovated and opened up to the public. Maybe Detroit could do something similar and provide guided tours through the old factories and bus tours along the ruins of the streets. The effect of the demise of industrial production in the US should be preserved as industrial heritage because it is a significant part of American history.
I just had a look at Delray on streetview. There is no way a place like that is ever going to recover. I don't know why people keep saying Detroit is reviving. It does make for a fascinating sight though. I prefer it this way rather than rebuild.
So you get much of your news about Detroit by watching The Crow? Well, many people probably do.
And you are also unaware that what you mention is already happening?
Moderator cut: not the politics forum, do I really have to hand out infractions for my warnings to work?? stick to the topic
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro
I have been traveling W Fort Street for miles in both directions on streetview and it's nothing but old abandoned factories, empty stores, abandoned or burned down houses with a single house still inhabited here and there, broken streets, rubble, empty lots where houses or buildings once used to be. It's like a ghost town, really bizarre. I don't think Detroit will ever recover from that but it should just try to scale down or give back what is left of it to nature.
So you see blight in front of your nose, are unaware of anything else going on, and therefore in your mind Detroit is doomed. Quite the reasoning process.
So you get much of your news about Detroit by watching The Crow? Well, many people probably do.
And you are also unaware that what you mention is already happening?
I was just impressed by how the Crow managed to portray Detroit in this surreal eerie way. It really revived my interest for Detroit. And yes, I now about some of the endeavours to revive Detroit.
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Well, everybody already knows how you feel,
Politics aside, I think he was spot on by what he wrote earlier on. Depending on your frame of reference, Detroit may look like it is not so bad, maybe even improving or it may look like a scene from a Charles Bronson movie:
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Originally Posted by Retroit
And herein lies the disconnect between people who have lived all their lives in the brutality of Detroit and those who have lived their lives in the more pleasant parts of the city/country. If you have lived your whole life in Detroit, you have gotten used to vacant homes/lots, burnt out buildings, litter strewn fields, abandoned lots with weeds growing 4 feet high, groups of people walking down the center of the street or loitering around, homeless people constantly asking for money, siren and gunshot echoes all day and night, streetlights that don't work, drivers that don't stop for stop signs or red lights, etc. To people who are not used to such things, Detroit seems a very forbidding place.
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So you see blight in front of your nose, are unaware of anything else going on, and therefore in your mind Detroit is doomed. Quite the reasoning process.
I didn't necessarily mean it in a negative way, Detroit could just concentrate on improving areas which still have potential and turn desolated areas like Delray into parks or forests, so basically scale down to an appropriate size for its population. I am actually quite impressed by its downtown, or midtown as people say here.
I hope some of the abandoned streets with boarded up houses and abandoned factories like the Packard plant do get preserved as industrial heritage. It provides a fascinating site which I am sure many tourists would like to see.
I just had a conversation with a friend about Detroit malls. She was SHOCKED to learn that Detroit has Louis Vuitton, Saks Fifth, Gucci, True Religion, ect stores in their malls. She said "In Detroit? Didn't the city file for bankruptcy? Who can afford to shop at those stores?" I had to explain to her how the metro area is actually fairly wealthy and the city filing for bankruptcy isn't changing most people's everyday life in the area.
I won't say typical but it's not unusual to get a " DETROIT HAS THAT!?!?" reaction when I tell people about things in Detroit. It's sad and funny at the same time. The fact that people are shocked that a big city like Detroit has, well, most things that other big cities have is a huge problem. The city's image and reputation is TERRIBLE. So bad that they think most people in the entire area is living below the poverty line and no one lives a normal life like people do elsewhere. It honestly blows my mind how they portray a one sided view of Detroit. Maybe it's just the fact that I know better. Maybe I should be like most people and ignore people's ignorance about my city.
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to learn that Detroit has Louis Vuitton, Saks Fifth, Gucci, True Religion, ect stores in their malls. She said "In Detroit? Didn't the city file for bankruptcy? Who can afford to shop at those stores?" I had to explain to her how the metro area is actually fairly wealthy and the city filing for bankruptcy isn't changing most people's everyday life in the area. 
