Detroit Is Coming Back (Hamtramck, Atlanta: apartment, for rent, houses)

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Yes and no. Affordable private schools could also suffice.

Unfortunately the cost of many of those have exploded over the last 15 years.

There used to be quite a few affordable and good Catholic schools. Not so much anymore.

"Affordable private schools" has become an oxymoron. Even Catholic school tuition starts at around $5K/year for grade school. And that doesn't include "suggested donations" that are a requirement.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

Something has to be done about the school system. That's the main impediment to future growth. Until then, you'll see young professionals leave for the suburbs once they're ready to have kids.

Originally Posted by Retroit

I give the credit to Illitch, Karmanos and Gilbert. It is because these wealthy individuals have been willing to invest in the city that it has recovered. What is happening in downtown & midtown is proof of what capitalism and a business-friendly government can accomplish.

Sure but it is the boutique and restaurant/nightlife owners who are setting the pace and helping to make it a truly trendy destination.

I was at Shinola on Sat. and it was packed.

It's sort of like the broken windows theory of crime in reverse.

Once you have a lot if genuinely sophisticated retail and nightlife you start attracting the right kind of people and it perpetuates itself.

[Indentured Servant]

Yes....the inertia has been broken. That was the hardest part. The level of growth will only accelerate from here.....providing the nation economy remains strong.

[Ummagumma]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

Something has to be done about the school system. That's the main impediment to future growth. Until then, you'll see young professionals leave for the suburbs once they're ready to have kids.

The problem isn't the schools, it's the families.

The teachers today have practically no tools at their disposal to make someone behave, shut up, pay attention and do their homework. None. Whatsoever. If they don't have family on their side, they lose. Period. Even the best ones. They can send a problematic kid in detention, but that won't help him learn. They can, at best, make him shut up in class - but again, that won't help the kids learn. If you have a school in which a large proportion of kids come from a poor, uneducated background and have the "screw the Man" attitude, I personally have no idea how that can be fixed, no amount of money or resources, short of attaching a personal teacher to each child, would help. Sorry.

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by Ummagumma

The problem isn't the schools, it's the families.

The teachers today have practically no tools at their disposal to make someone behave, shut up, pay attention and do their homework. None. Whatsoever. If they don't have family on their side, they lose. Period. Even the best ones. They can send a problematic kid in detention, but that won't help him learn. They can, at best, make him shut up in class - but again, that won't help the kids learn. If you have a school in which a large proportion of kids come from a poor, uneducated background and have the "screw the Man" attitude, I personally have no idea how that can be fixed, no amount of money or resources, short of attaching a personal teacher to each child, would help. Sorry.

It's the schools AND the families. But we're here in this discussion to talk about positives. One positive is that they appear to be tearing the school system down to the ankles and rebuilding it. High time.

I get a funny feeling when I drive downtown and see how empty it is, but the people are as nice as ever -- they were always VERY nice with a few glaring exceptions of the sort you see in any large city -- and everyone seems happier and more hopeful. It's still home to me, and I have lived away from Detroit since the early 1980s.

[Ummagumma]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

It's the schools AND the families. But we're here in this discussion to talk about positives. One positive is that they appear to be tearing the school system down to the ankles and rebuilding it. High time.

I get a funny feeling when I drive downtown and see how empty it is, but the people are as nice as ever -- they were always VERY nice with a few glaring exceptions of the sort you see in any large city -- and everyone seems happier and more hopeful. It's still home to me, and I have lived away from Detroit since the early 1980s.

Yep, let's talk about positives and ignore the main underlying problem. It's like telling a terminally ill patient "well at least your stool sample looks great".

Bad schools and good families = someone who needs to work a bit harder to go to college

Great schools and broken families = bad schools and broken families, eventually.

Detroit already has a few really good schools. Cass Tech High comes to mind. I bet you the kids there started in the right environment before they got to that school.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

It's the schools AND the families. But we're here in this discussion to talk about positives. One positive is that they appear to be tearing the school system down to the ankles and rebuilding it. High time.

I get a funny feeling when I drive downtown and see how empty it is, but the people are as nice as ever -- they were always VERY nice with a few glaring exceptions of the sort you see in any large city -- and everyone seems happier and more hopeful. It's still home to me, and I have lived away from Detroit since the early 1980s.

What part of the city did you grow up in, man?

[MS313]

I took a walk around downtown Chicago yesterday. I haven't been there in years. The whole time I'm thinking, "I don't see anything that can't be done in Detroit" "This should be downtown Detroit". Like greater downtown Detroit, greater downtown Chicago is split up into a few different areas (north loop, south loop, ect) and is not that much different in land area size. The two big differences I see that makes the downtown Chicago area superior are:

1. A LOT of people live in downtown Chicago, not only that but Chicago's densest neighborhoods also surround downtown Chicago. Downtown Detroit is really, a CBD. And some of the most bombed out neighborhoods surround downtown Detroit. Detroit's real density doesn't start until your a couple of miles away from the downtown area. This to me makes the biggest difference because for one supply and demand, way too many people live and work around there for it to not have almost everything. People who live near downtown Chicago have almost no reason to go out of their way to do anything. Retail, grocery, restaurants, chain and local stores, theaters, parks, beaches, banks, ect is all a one stop shop for not only the residents in and near downtown but the people who come downtown as well. It's extremely convenient and makes the place vibrant.

2. It kind of ties in with #1. The overall feel, for example. In downtown Chicago there are many buildings with a bit of height on them to make you feel like your in a massive city. Downtown Detroit has it's spots that will make you feel like that, but your impressions can change depending on where you go. If you took every surface parking lot or empty space in Downtown, Midtown, New Center, and of course the Riverfront and built high rises and skyscrapers on all of them, greater downtown Detroit would feel MUCH bigger. We could easily build a ton of high rise apartments since the demand is so high right now. I love Detroit's skyline but it really doesn't look like it's a city center of a 5.7 million area. Maybe 3 million people at best. Detroit is kind of low key, it needs more of a "wow" factor to attract people. It doesn't take much to impress people and get them talking, Chicago does this well. Like the fancy McDonald's in the north loop for example. Chicago likes to brag, and it gives a real traditional big city feel. Detroit actually has alot to brag about, it should be more aggressive in making people aware of what Detroit has to offer and making people interested in the city. Especially to fight back against all of the negativity. Detroit needs more confidence and pride to sell itself more.

I think those two things could really boost the greater downtown area more.

[keraT]

Originally Posted by MS313

I took a walk around downtown Chicago yesterday. I haven't been there in years. The whole time I'm thinking, "I don't see anything that can't be done in Detroit" "This should be downtown Detroit".

.

Most big cities I have visited always made me think, Detroit could easily be this. Very few cities have anything unique (not buildable). We will get there

[MS313]

Originally Posted by keraT

Most big cities I have visited always made me think, Detroit could easily be this. Very few cities have anything unique (not buildable). We will get there

I do that too, some things just wouldn't make since in Detroit or would take up too much space where in Detroit the only large enough space would be an undesirable area. But Chicago? I feel like that is where Detroit belongs and I hope to god they don't try to build Detroit out like a sunbelt city. It should look like the powerhouse it is not just "another big city". I think the advantage Detroit has is it is urban and still has room for alot of ideas, I think this will put Detroit ahead in the long run.