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Old 08-31-2011, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,574 posts, read 23,130,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
Also, an advertisement from someone who is selling the product, is not a reliable source of factual information.
I'll give Berkhan credit. He's a smart guy that uses science to back up his claims, even if he does get a little fanatical about them and overstate their benefits.

Still, I'd never do that fasting thing. Too much of a hassle.
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,574 posts, read 23,130,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxedoutbrattpower View Post
Elaborate. How is fasting a "hassle"?
Easy. For one, I'm a fairly active guy so running around all day on an empty stomach would suck donkey balls, plus I am one of those types that can't eat very much once I reach a certain level of hunger, which in itself would basically rule out me using an intermittent fasting deal. That said, if you IF fits your schedule and preferences, go for it. Just understand that absent those personal preferences, there is really nothing that makes IF superior to conventional nutrient timing.
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Old 09-01-2011, 02:59 AM
 
Location: US
5,139 posts, read 12,736,015 times
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Not all bodies take fasting well. That is a truth. If you get into depth about detox etc you will find that info. Generally the muscle heavy,low fat body types do not do well.
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:07 PM
 
192 posts, read 251,412 times
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Ignore the "too much sugar' ignorance.

But they're right about your diet not being enough calories. If you increase the calories to 1600+ by increasing fruit to 15 a day, you'll have my diet for the last 17 years. I am thin, never get sick, I lift weights, and I'm happy.

If you eat all you want of whole foods in correct combos - especially fruit and veg - your weight will normalize (weight gain/loss isn't just about calories)

* The other primates eat mostly fruit. We are Fruigivores. And the 80/10/10 diet shows the best way to do it.

Here's some pics of thin yet muscular 80/10/10rs (811'rs)

80 10 10 Gladiators!

Fruit for the WIN.


Protein, carbs, fat - explained

- Dr. Doug Graham - YouTube
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:57 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,860,492 times
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Nonsense and poppycock. We're omnivores. Our bodies - including our teeth - are designed to ingest, digest, and expel plant and meat.

"The other primates" - which other primates? Because, there are some other primates that eat a steady blend of both meat and plant matter, and there are some primates that actually prefer bugs to anything else. There are some primates that enjoy a diet of leaves and wood, and still others which yes - do like fruit.

The term "frugivore" describes omnivores and vegetarians who PREFER fruits. That doesn't mean people are frugivores. It means YOU are a frugivore, and all your pals are frugivores. You and your pals don't speak on behalf of the human race and in fact you are in the vast minority.

In fact, even the orangutan, one of the most recognizeable primates, often includes only 65% fruit in its diet. It ranges from 65% to 90% depending on season and proximity to harvestable fruit trees. It isn't even a true vegetarian, since it eats insects and bird eggs, in addition to a variety of plants, from leaves to fruits and vegetable roots, vines, nuts, and honey. They would be considered frugivores because they *prefer* fruit; not because their digestive systems can only handle fruit.

Frugivore is a food preference type, just as a pescatarian is someone who -prefers- the vegetarian diet accompanied by fish.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:42 PM
 
192 posts, read 251,412 times
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(note, I'm not hgihjacking the thread here, just clearing up Anon's false statements)

(note #2: beware of people using emotionally-charged words such as "poppycock")



Quote:
which other primates?

orangutans
bonobos
Tropical gorillas
monkeys

......do not purposefully eat animal products.

Quote:
The term "frugivore" describes omnivores and vegetarians who PREFER fruits.

No, you're thinking of "Fruitarian". A frugivore is a class of animal who is physiologically designed for fruit.


Quote:
We're omnivores.

Humans who migrated away from the tropics started eating omni for lack of fruit.


As for physiologically:

Facial Muscles
Carnivore Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
Herbivore Well-developed
Omnivore Reduced
Human Well-developed


Jaw Type
Carnivore Angle not expanded
Herbivore Expanded angle
Omnivore Angle not expanded
Human Expanded angle

Jaw Joint Location
Carnivore On same plane as molar teeth
Herbivore Above the plane of the molars
Omnivore On same plane as molar teeth
Human Above the plane of the molars

Jaw Motion
Carnivore Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Herbivore No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
Omnivore Shearing; minimal side-to-side
Human No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back

Major Jaw Muscles
Carnivore Temporalis
Herbivore Masseter and pterygoids
Omnivore Temporalis
Human Masseter and pterygoids

Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
Carnivore Large
Herbivore Small
Omnivore Large
Human Small

Teeth (Incisors)
Carnivore Short and pointed
Herbivore Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Omnivore Short and pointed
Human Broad, flattened and spade shaped

Teeth (Canines)
Carnivore Long, sharp and curved
Herbivore Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
Omnivore Long, sharp and curved
Human Short and blunted

Teeth (Molars)
Carnivore Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
Herbivore Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
Omnivore Sharp blades and/or flattened
Human Flattened with nodular cusps

Chewing
Carnivore None; swallows food whole
Herbivore Extensive chewing necessary
Omnivore Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
Human Extensive chewing necessary

Saliva
Carnivore No digestive enzymes
Herbivore Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Omnivore No digestive enzymes
Human Carbohydrate digesting enzymes

Stomach Type
Carnivore Simple
Herbivore Simple or multiple chambers
Omnivore Simple
Human Simple

Stomach Acidity
Carnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Omnivore Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Human pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach

Stomach Capacity
Carnivore 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Herbivore Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
Omnivore 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Human 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract

Length of Small Intestine
Carnivore 3 to 6 times body length
Herbivore 10 to more than 12 times body length
Omnivore 4 to 6 times body length
Human 10 to 11 times body length

Colon
Carnivore Simple, short and smooth
Herbivore Long, complex; may be sacculated
Omnivore Simple, short and smooth
Human Long, sacculated

Liver
Carnivore Can detoxify vitamin A
Herbivore Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Omnivore Can detoxify vitamin A
Human Cannot detoxify vitamin A

Kidney
Carnivore Extremely concentrated urine
Herbivore Moderately concentrated urine
Omnivore Extremely concentrated urine
Human Moderately concentrated urine

Nails
Carnivore Sharp claws
Herbivore Flattened nails or blunt hooves
Omnivore Sharp claws
Human Flattened nails[6]


Bonus:
World reknowned cardiologist shatters human omnivore myth in one sentence
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/t...d-cardiologist


Using logic and science, It is extremely obvious that human beings do not possess an anatomy that is naturally geared towards the consumption of meat.


If we were dropped in the tropics with no tools and no memory of society, we wouldn't even try to catch an animal. We'd just want.........Fruit for the win.

Last edited by Sacman; 09-11-2011 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,860,492 times
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1. Just because you made it bold, doesn't make it true.
2. Orangutans: as I posted already, they DO include insects in their diet. And all kinds of things in addition to fruits. Purposefully.
3. Bonobos: primarily frugivorius, however they also eat meats such as flying squirrils and other small vertibrates. Purposefully.
4. Tropical gorillas: fruit makes up only around 25% of their diet, and only when it's available. They eat mostly leaves, and enjoy ants - which is an animal. Purposefully.
5. Monkeys: again - depending on what's available at the time, they will eat anything from leaves, shoots, roots, insects, small reptiles, fruits, and eggs. Purposefully.

Bonus: You're thinking of chimpanzees, who thrive on fruit as their -primary- source of food, though they will ALSO eat other sources of nutrition. None of the primates you mentioned eat primarily fruit, and only the bonobo (among the ones you singled out) prefers fruit, though even the bonobo will, and does, enjoy meat, and can digest it just fine.

This information is readily available to you with a quick google search, or by checking the Encyclopedia Britannica, or with National Geographic magazines, or on wikipedia.

A frugivore is any type of omnivore or herbivore that feeds primarily on fruit, whether by design, availability, or preference. Fruit bats are frugivores. Chimpanzees are frugivores. Bonobos, monkeys, orangutans, and humans - are not. Gorillas are primarily herbivores, though they will also eat meat in the form of ants, which they actually like, and other small insects.

Again - this information comes from any of a variety of resources.

The term "Fruitarian" is a subset of veganism that revolves around eating fruits, nuts, seeds, and avoids meat, vegetables, and grain.

Humans, once they evolved into "humans," have been omnivorous from the start. Prior to our evolution from ape to man, we were not man. We were ape. And even then, we weren't frugivore; we were herbivore-leaning omnivores.

This information comes from - you guessed it - a variety of resources, from National Geographic magazine, to World Book Encyclopedia, to Grey's Anatomy-Physiology, to random and sundry articles and scientific publications on evolution, to the remarkably unreliable, though often accurate wikipedia.

As for the nonsense about physiology: you're getting your information from a website that profits by convincing suckers that their supplements/book/summer camp/product/lifestyle/scam is worth paying for. If a world reknowned cardiologist had truly "shattered" the human omnivore "myth," then it would be shattered. And the known world of medical science would say "OMGWTFLOL WE WERE WRONG MAKE EVERYONE EAT FRUTEZ!!!1111" and the supplement companies would have a field day selling all the supplements that humans require when they stop eating anything other than fruit, and the laxative companies would rejoice, for all these people eating 30 bananas a day would need something to eliminate the constipation, and the government would party their butts off after "saving" us all from our own folly by outlawing milk and cheese once and for all, and taxing Tropicana to the hilt. And the CDC would be grateful for a whole new budget to keep them in business while they re-draw their food pyramid. Again.

But - none of these things have happened, or are in the process of happening, or even being considered as a possible future happening. The only people who think a primarily-fruit diet is a good idea, are the people who are eating a primarily-fruit diet. And - the people who are trying to sell suckers on the idea that a primarily-fruit diet is a good thing.
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:41 PM
 
192 posts, read 251,412 times
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Quote:
And the known world of medical science would say "OMGWTFLOL WE WERE WRONG
I don't think you're that naive. We live in a society that believes in - and lives by - an ocean of myths and dogma. Any professional going against the status-quo is risking their reputation. Besides, very few people would follow the advice to do a dietary 180(the mainstream "known world....yada yada" would never recommend a fruit diet........ OR ants....or they would cease to BE the mainstream).

Some individual experts ARE though: Douglas Graham Phd. Kloss, Kordach and Bragg. But the powerful groups - especially the medical/drug cartel(oops, emotional wordage) - will tell us the truth. LOL it's politics.

1-5 is cherry-picking biased observational studies. Ex: Someone may've found a crazed bonobo killing an animal (and eating some of it to intimidate other animals), but......

The average bonobo eats a 90-100% fruit diet.

Quote:
Again - this information comes from any of a variety of resources.
Yes, I urge people to actually look up the real facts instead of believing in misconceptions that get passed on as "everybody knows that".

Forget Scientists; I'm looking at SCIENCE: real life, the way we're built, the way we think.

People, cut through the biased dis-info that feeds you - and leads you - into the pill-pushers hands (I just made that up )

Dis-info people don't care about people being healthy - they just want keep people buying the meat/dairy industry's products. Its just business.

Meanwhile, I'll keep living the truth, and being as healthy and long-lived as Graham. Kloss, Kordach and Bragg. Don't hand the responsibility of your health to some corrupt group, because only you can be responsible for you.

Last edited by Sacman; 09-11-2011 at 04:01 PM..
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
865 posts, read 2,507,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacman View Post
I don't think you're that naive. We live in a society that believes in - and lives by - an ocean of myths and dogma. Any professional going against the status-quo is risking their reputation. Besides, very few people would follow the advice to do a dietary 180. Some individual experts ARE though: Douglas Graham Phd. Kloss, Kordach and Bragg. But the powerful groups - especially the medical/drug cartel(oops, emotional wordage) - will tell us the truth. LOL it's politics.


1-5 is cherry-picking biased observational studies. Ex: Someone may've found a crazed bonobo killing an animal (and eating some of it to intimidate other animals), but......

The average bonobo eats a 90-100% fruit diet.

Yes, I urge people to actually look up the real facts instead of believing in misconceptions that get passed on as "everybody knows that".

Forget Scientists; I'm looking at SCIENCE: real life, the way we're built, the way we think.

People, cut through the biased dis-info that feeds you and leads you into the pill-pushers hands (I just made that up
Sorry, I'm going with AnonChick on this one. Evidence of primates eating meat in the wild (usually insects) is abundant, not just a few instances where observational studies are "cherry picked."

One of the first things you are taught in graduate school about reading research is to look at the source and look at who is funding said research. If all you can show me is one doctor/scientist who is espousing his opinion (not citing research) on a website that obviously is pushing an agenda (30bananasaday?!), then I'm not going to give what you have to say much credence.

And if you want to look at SCIENCE, as you say, then you need to read peer reviewed research done by "real scientists." Otherwise you are just making (possibly ill-informed) observations.
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Old 09-11-2011, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,574 posts, read 23,130,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxedoutbrattpower View Post
IF is generally a MUCH better way to suppress insulin and get the fat burning going.

Ori Hofmekler explains how undereating during the day fuels "the hunger for life":

The Warrior Diet: Switch on Your ... - Google Books

OP, totally do it. You will not regret it.
And why would you be concerned with insulin? Not only are it's effects on weight loss GREATLY overstated (even protein can raise insulin levels) but elevated insulin levels can inhibit muscle protein breakdown and aid in muscle protein synthesis.This is another example of why you should listen to people who actually know what they're talking about.

Oh, and you're doing a very poor job of hiding your new account.
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