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The only nutrient a purely plant-based diet is missing is B12 which can be easily supplemented, but commonly eaten sea foods are the richest sources of B12 so a plant-based diet + some fish meets all nutritional needs.
You are dead wrong on how humans work. You may want to research biological value and assimilation. Good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
It doesn't matter if I include crustaceans or not, because non-crustacean fish (you know, fish. Surely you've seen them, those funky roundish oblong things with the fins and tails and gills that swim in the water and don't ever walk onto shore?) will give you all you need when combined with a vegetarian diet.
It's also called (erroneously) a Mediterranean diet.
Fish are low in heme iron, which is why I asked if you included shellfish or not (because shellfish are high in heme iron). Iron is not all equal, as plant sources are not digested and assimilated as well as heme iron. There are others as well, but that one is huge.
Plant iron IS absorbed and digested. Not as efficiently, but thankfully you can get all the iron you need by consuming non-meat. So instead of eating 2 ounces of sirloin, you eat a nice dinner-sized big baby spinach salad with peanuts and raisins and gorgonzola cheese balsamic vinegrette along with your 5-ounce broiled salmon with dill and lemon. If you cook with a cast-iron pan, you get even more. Vegetarians who eat a balanced non-meat diet, are not prone to anemia. There is nothing in land-based meats that you can't get from a combined diet of plant-based foods and fish. This includes the appropriate amount of nutrition, vitamins, minerals, micronutrients, etc. etc.
You are dead wrong on how humans work. You may want to research biological value and assimilation. Good luck.
What I've said is straight out of nutrition 101, there is nothing controversial about it. There are 15~20 million vegetarians in the US, 100+ million in Europe, 300+ million in India, etc....humans have thousands of years experience with vegetarian diets and they meet all our nutritional needs. A vegetarian diet + fish is not problematic at all and, if anything, is going to provide health benefits over a diet with land animals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7
Iron is not all equal, as plant sources are not digested and assimilated as well as heme iron. There are others as well, but that one is huge.
People have no trouble meeting their iron needs form plant-based sources of iron.
Non-heme iron, the form of iron present in vegetables and in man's staples, generally is poorly absorbed and is greatly affected by enhancing or inhibiting substances in the diet.
This is particularly important because nutritional anemia, caused predominantly by iron deficiency, is a significant worldwide problem and the most common nutritional deficiency
Re: your DSM link: it isn't a study at all; it's an article written by a staff member of a newsletter that writes for one of the largest independent pharmaceutical companies in the world. Also, infants don't eat meat, so your inclusion of the article in this thread is irrelevant. The alternative to whatever the Peruvian families are doing, would NOT be to feed their children meat. In addition, the article does specify:
Quote:
Iron absorption depends on the type of iron that is provided in the food or supplement (particularly heme vs. non-heme iron), the levels of iron absorption promotors such as vitamin C in the meal, the levels of iron absorption inhibitors such as phytate or tannic acid, and the health and iron status of the individual.
and
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In particular, women of child-bearing age (especially pregnant women), infants and toddlers are most affected.
So even meat-eating pregnant women are prone to iron deficiency. It's not because they don't eat meat. It's because they're pregnant.
Basically - it's a big fat over-ripe worm-infested red herring.
Re: your DSM link: it isn't a study at all; it's an article written by a staff member of a newsletter that writes for one of the largest independent pharmaceutical companies in the world. Also, infants don't eat meat, so your inclusion of the article in this thread is irrelevant. The alternative to whatever the Peruvian families are doing, would NOT be to feed their children meat. In addition, the article does specify:
and
So even meat-eating pregnant women are prone to iron deficiency. It's not because they don't eat meat. It's because they're pregnant.
Basically - it's a big fat over-ripe worm-infested red herring.
My post was meant to make two points.....one, iron-deficient anemia IS a problem that plagues a significant percentage of the population......two, non-heme iron is poorly utilized by the human body.
Most of the commonly eaten types of meat, such as muscle tissues, contain either smaller amounts of iron or a significant percentage of non-heme iron. It is no wonder that common cuts of meat will not stave-off or treat iron deficient anemia.
Hilarious is the notion that an iron source, with low biological availability, non-heme iron, will treat someone with a significant case of iron-deficient anemia.
Yes, I had iron-deficient anemia and tried various methods to treat it. Eating foods that have highly biologically available iron worked better than all the other things I tried.
I'm mildly anemic, and I find eating green leafy vegetables every day, and peanutbutter once or twice a week, gives me the same boost of energy that eating chopped liver gives me. Biggest difference: I get full eating green leafy vegetables every day and peanutbutter once or twice a week, and eating that much chopped liver would make me obese, and cause who the heck knows what other problems.
On the other hand, a smear of chopped liver on a piece of pumpernickel is a lovely treat. Definitely not something I'd want to eat daily just to boost my iron levels, but by your description, that's exactly what I'd need to do.
Why would I want to do that, when I can have a HUGE salad every day and stuff my face silly with delicious baby spinach and field greens with a bit of gorgonzola cheese, a garlic-balsamic vinegraitte, with some carrots and ripe juicy raw tomatoes and fresh dill and parsley and maybe some glazed pecans?
Trade that for a daily chopped liver on toast? Fuggedaboudit.
Iron is found in the diet in two forms—heme iron, which is well absorbed, and nonheme iron, which is poorly absorbed. The best dietary source of absorbable (heme) iron is lean red meat. Chicken, turkey, and fish are also sources of iron, but they contain less than red meat. Cereals, beans, and some vegetables contain poorly absorbed (nonheme) iron.
Like I said, I had iron-deficient anemia and treat it by eating 3 to 5 meals from food that contain high quality iron, LOL, not just liver. Let's see......I eat 21 meals a week, so at a maximum I have to fit in high quality iron......
(5 / 21 * 100 = 23.8%) 23.8% of the time......not rocket science nor is the food distasteful.
That's all well and good, but it still doesn't disqualify a non-land-animal diet. A vegetarian diet that adds fish to the mix WILL provide the average person with all the nutrients they need. Even iron. Granted, they might have to eat more iron-rich foods in their own preference category than if they ate meat, but there IS iron that DOES get absorbed, in those foods. Whether meats absorb *better* or not - has nothing to do with the topic.
Iron from non-heme sources IS absorbed. It just is. Like you said - not rocket science.
Hilarious is the notion that an iron source, with low biological availability, non-heme iron, will treat someone with a significant case of iron-deficient anemia.
Someone with a significant case of iron-deficient anemia is going to be put on a supplement regime not told to eat more meat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul
Non-heme iron, the form of iron present in vegetables and in man's staples, generally is poorly absorbed and is greatly affected by enhancing or inhibiting substances in the diet.
Non-heme iron is absorbed at lower rates but its not, in general, poorly absorbed. People don't have trouble meeting their iron needs from non-heme iron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul
This is particularly important because nutritional anemia, caused predominantly by iron deficiency, is a significant worldwide problem and the most common nutritional deficiency
It is, but not because the lack of meat, instead its due to a lack of nutritious foods in many developing countries. Western vegetarians don't have higher rates of anemia than those eating meat.
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