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Not really getting too excited about this. It's pretty well established that the rise in obesity has a direct correlation to the rise in caloric intake and decrease in physical activity of populations as a whole, yet now it's apparently a genetic issue?
Right. When they move beyond rodent and test tube studies, I might change my tune.
Now, there is some validity to the idea of manipulating beige/brown fat for fat loss. Lyle McDonald put out an entire booklet on doing exactly that, but I don't know that it's going to be helpful in obese people.
I think there is some validity to the concept in general. There are/might be people who are pre-disposed to obesity. But their choices in life, and the choices of their parents in their childrens' youth, will determine the actual outcome.
In other words - some metabolic something is doing something unusual for some people. And as soon as you see Junior doing the same thing his fraternal (non-identical) brother doing, eating the same foods, sharing in the same activities - yet Junior is getting chunky while his brother remains thin - that's when you need to put on the brakes and do something different for Junior.
If you don't, then yes - I believe the genetic marker will kick in and create the environment for obesity in Junior even though his fraternal twin remains thin doing and eating the same things.
But it's not the genes that are making Junior fat. It is STILL what he's eating and what he's doing that's making him fat. He just needs to do and eat something different, from an earlier age, to ensure he doesn't get that way.
Its tempting for me as someone who has been over weight almost my entire life to blame a gene, to blame my family who is largely overweight. Thing is all of us if we make lifestyle changes can do better I've done it and so have they so...
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,166,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
I think there is some validity to the concept in general. There are/might be people who are pre-disposed to obesity. But their choices in life, and the choices of their parents in their childrens' youth, will determine the actual outcome.
In other words - some metabolic something is doing something unusual for some people. And as soon as you see Junior doing the same thing his fraternal (non-identical) brother doing, eating the same foods, sharing in the same activities - yet Junior is getting chunky while his brother remains thin - that's when you need to put on the brakes and do something different for Junior.
If you don't, then yes - I believe the genetic marker will kick in and create the environment for obesity in Junior even though his fraternal twin remains thin doing and eating the same things.
But it's not the genes that are making Junior fat. It is STILL what he's eating and what he's doing that's making him fat. He just needs to do and eat something different, from an earlier age, to ensure he doesn't get that way.
Yes, but we're still the same species that until recently only had a very few really obese people, especially in hunter-gatherer societies. Same DNA. Some people became fat, but not to the extreme we see now.
As with other evolved tendencies such as circadian rythms, we civilized people change the natural order of things at some peril (and often great gain). Our patterns of eating and types of foods have changed drastically from the first coupla hundred thousand years of our evolution. We used to eat a lot of whatever was around to satisfy our hunger, which could be berries, roots, twigs, road kill, anything to fill the hole .... fire cooking came relatively late, as well as improved hunting techniques to get more of the fantastic nutritional benefits of fish and meat (which was usually much leaner than what we get in supermarkets.)
Early humans were likely to be usually somewhat hungry, often starving, but then getting a glut of berries or antelope meat for a while.
That was natural enough, and probably healthy if one avoided starvation, but we in this day and age have decided that we want to eat a wide variety of really tasty food, way better than any twigs or half-scavenged antelope carcasses. On top of that tremendous variety of incredible foods and beverages from around the world, there are manufactured foods that have appetite stimulants such as the many forms of MSG or fructose, and God only knows what else they aren't telling us about. Appetite stimulation equals greater consumption equals greater profits.
I suppose the answer to the problem of obesity will ultimately involve a return to natural eating patterns .... lots of berries and roots and wild grains roasted over camp fires .... a few rodents .... maybe some ancient fruits and veggies, some fish, some meats of various types ..... perhaps even a "fat deer" or an elk that goes "moooo" ...... domestication of cattle has been around for a long time. I remember an African guy telling me that beef in Africa with its primitive genotype is entirely different from Western beef, much more flavorful, less fatty.
Well, maybe we need not go to that extreme .... but it would be good to eat much more simply, foods that don't taste fantastic like Doritos or ice cream, but are reasonably natural for the most part .... maybe an occasional feast would be ok.
Yes, but we're still the same species that until recently only had a very few really obese people, especially in hunter-gatherer societies. Same DNA. Some people became fat, but not to the extreme we see now.
As with other evolved tendencies such as circadian rythms, we civilized people change the natural order of things at some peril (and often great gain). Our patterns of eating and types of foods have changed drastically from the first coupla hundred thousand years of our evolution. We used to eat a lot of whatever was around to satisfy our hunger, which could be berries, roots, twigs, road kill, anything to fill the hole .... fire cooking came relatively late, as well as improved hunting techniques to get more of the fantastic nutritional benefits of fish and meat (which was usually much leaner than what we get in supermarkets.)
Early humans were likely to be usually somewhat hungry, often starving, but then getting a glut of berries or antelope meat for a while.
That was natural enough, and probably healthy if one avoided starvation, but we in this day and age have decided that we want to eat a wide variety of really tasty food, way better than any twigs or half-scavenged antelope carcasses. On top of that tremendous variety of incredible foods and beverages from around the world, there are manufactured foods that have appetite stimulants such as the many forms of MSG or fructose, and God only knows what else they aren't telling us about. Appetite stimulation equals greater consumption equals greater profits.
I suppose the answer to the problem of obesity will ultimately involve a return to natural eating patterns .... lots of berries and roots and wild grains roasted over camp fires .... a few rodents .... maybe some ancient fruits and veggies, some fish, some meats of various types ..... perhaps even a "fat deer" or an elk that goes "moooo" ...... domestication of cattle has been around for a long time. I remember an African guy telling me that beef in Africa with its primitive genotype is entirely different from Western beef, much more flavorful, less fatty.
Well, maybe we need not go to that extreme .... but it would be good to eat much more simply, foods that don't taste fantastic like Doritos or ice cream, but are reasonably natural for the most part .... maybe an occasional feast would be ok.
The answer to the problem of obesity might very well involve a return to "natural" eating patterns. But in order to do that, you would also need for it to return to a "natural" way of living. That means - no home insulation, plumbing, toilets, cars, jobs in buildings anywhere, electricity, heat, air conditioning, or fur-lined boots.
You'd have to live by Nature's rules, exclusively, and if you die of hypothermia because you were out for three days in the early winter trying to bring an elk back to your family to eat, then oh well - your 24 years of life was fun while it lasted.
The other option - would be to track what you're eating, decide which things on the list you're eating too much of, reduce those things, and get more exercise. A dietician can help you figure out which things need to be reduced, and how much reduction you need to take.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,166,733 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
The answer to the problem of obesity might very well involve a return to "natural" eating patterns. But in order to do that, you would also need for it to return to a "natural" way of living. That means - no home insulation, plumbing, toilets, cars, jobs in buildings anywhere, electricity, heat, air conditioning, or fur-lined boots.
You'd have to live by Nature's rules, exclusively, and if you die of hypothermia because you were out for three days in the early winter trying to bring an elk back to your family to eat, then oh well - your 24 years of life was fun while it lasted.
The other option - would be to track what you're eating, decide which things on the list you're eating too much of, reduce those things, and get more exercise. A dietician can help you figure out which things need to be reduced, and how much reduction you need to take.
Well, counting calories and doing set exercises will work .... but most people find it annoying and hard to stick to.
I'm more interested in regaining the natural tendency to keep weight balanced, the "appestat". It worked well before the latter part of the Industrial Age, before the time of such incredible varieties of foods from around the world, each promoted precisely because they would overstimulate appetite and thus improve demand .... and profits.
I think it could be done, if started early in life. Foods that taste ok but won't cause great stimulation. For examples, very lightly sweetened oatmeal or kasha for breakfast instead of Honey Nut Cheerios, snack on unsalted nuts or a carrot instead of Cheetos or Pringles, eat unseasoned steaks with mushrooms and home-made mashed potatoes instead of Big Macs with fries. Save the really tasty stuff for holidays.
Exercise by walking a lot throughout the day and doing chores rather than an exercise regimen that probably won't be adhered to for a few months, much less an entire lifetime.
Well, counting calories and doing set exercises will work .... but most people find it annoying and hard to stick to.
I'm more interested in regaining the natural tendency to keep weight balanced, the "appestat". It worked well before the latter part of the Industrial Age, before the time of such incredible varieties of foods from around the world, each promoted precisely because they would overstimulate appetite and thus improve demand .... and profits.
I think it could be done, if started early in life. Foods that taste ok but won't cause great stimulation. For examples, very lightly sweetened oatmeal or kasha for breakfast instead of Honey Nut Cheerios, snack on unsalted nuts or a carrot instead of Cheetos or Pringles, eat unseasoned steaks with mushrooms and home-made mashed potatoes instead of Big Macs with fries. Save the really tasty stuff for holidays.
Exercise by walking a lot throughout the day and doing chores rather than an exercise regimen that probably won't be adhered to for a few months, much less an entire lifetime.
You'd STILL need to use portion control. That is the problem with blaming obesity exclusively on genetics. Obese people who are predisposed genetically to obesity, don't become obese by eating junk. They become obese by eating TOO MUCH FOOD. You -can- become obese eating a healthy variety of foods, with no junk at all, ever. You -can- become obese by eating your steaks TOO big, by eating TOO MUCH home-made mashed potatoes, by eating TOO MUCH lightly sweetened oatmeal, and TOO MANY nuts.
It is a combination of quantity and quality that matters, it is not just one or the other.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,166,733 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
You'd STILL need to use portion control. That is the problem with blaming obesity exclusively on genetics. Obese people who are predisposed genetically to obesity, don't become obese by eating junk. They become obese by eating TOO MUCH FOOD. You -can- become obese eating a healthy variety of foods, with no junk at all, ever. You -can- become obese by eating your steaks TOO big, by eating TOO MUCH home-made mashed potatoes, by eating TOO MUCH lightly sweetened oatmeal, and TOO MANY nuts.
It is a combination of quantity and quality that matters, it is not just one or the other.
But no one (or very few) before the Industrial Revolution had to practice portion control - we humans actually have a genetic pre-disposition to stay at a healthy weight for the most part without any particular self-control or an iron will, quite the opposite of what most people think. Something has changed in the last coupla hundred years that triggers obesity genes to come into play, or causes slender genes to be masked.
I don't think eating all natural, unprocessed foods as an adult will make a huge difference to every one, but I've known quite a few who came down to a healthy weight doing so. Probably like so many other things, the best chance for it to work is if done in the first five years of life.
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