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I'll say this as gently as I can...The first one that needs to be trained is your fiance. Spoiling one dog (or two dogs) over another is a recipe for disaster. Training the dogs won't happen because the dogs don't respect you or your fiance's authority in the house. Without a change in your fiance's mindset, there will be no lasting progress in training the dogs. They will continue to poop and pee everywhere as well as bite and cause an unsanitary and chaotic home environment. Please speak to a trainer - its the only way you will get control back.
Personally, I think three dogs confined all day in a 2 bedroom apartment is way too much and am surprised your landlord even allows it and a trainer is probably going to tell you the same thing.
I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around why she bought a third dog when they are living in an apartment and the first two aren't housetrained.
I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around why she bought a third dog when they are living in an apartment and the first two aren't housetrained.
Thousands of people are attracted to the 'puppy' until they get bigger. That lab has no business being in that home - Period! It's complete lack of sensibility and responsibility.
Animal Hoarding is one explanation.
Animal hoarding involves keeping higher than usual numbers of animals as domestic pets without having the ability to properly house or care for them, while at the same time denying this inability. Compulsive hoarding can be characterized as a symptom of mental disorder rather than deliberate cruelty towards animals. Hoarders are deeply attached to their pets and find it extremely difficult to let the pets go. They typically cannot comprehend that they are harming their pets by failing to provide them with proper care. Hoarders tend to believe that they provide the right amount of care for their pets. The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals provides a "Hoarding Prevention Team", which works with hoarders to help them attain a manageable and healthy number of pets.
I agree with everything that's been said...it's apparent that you guys have a lot to learn about owning dogs - adding a second puppy, and a same-sex one at that, when the current two dogs are untrained is a recipe for disaster! BTW, many 4-5 month old pups are not reliably house-trained. One other thing - if you are planning on having children, you absolutely, utterly must proof all dogs in your home with kids, starting yesterday. Don't think a small dog is harmless. Toy dogs have mained and even killed babies and toddlers.
It is really unfair not to train dogs and to let them run the show, and extremely unfair to treat them like babies in cute fur suits. Start watching or reading Cesar Millan or the other show mentioned. Also - think this should be standard operating procedure, especially with three dogs (anything more than two is a pack): Nothing in Life is Free
My first thought is...find a good home for Circa. Now, while she is still cute and easy to re-home. I'm serious. Work on the two little dogs; consider a third only when you have a handle on training your dogs, because at this point you have no clue. I don't say that to be mean, everyone has to learn....but I am a very seasoned dog owner and foster home and my mind, it boggles at the thought of the work involved with two puppies and an ill-tempered, untrained adult all at once. It would be much kinder to put the big pup in a home where she gets proper training, attention and exercise. Also, the cost of caring for three dogs - heartworm meds, flea/tick, food, having an emergency fund, is not a small thing. I have three dogs plus a foster dog in my house right now (about 350 combined pounds of dog); I'd have a lot more discretionary income if I had none, or just one! Would you guys be able to afford surgery and care if either of the pups turns out to have orthopedic problems, which can easily run into the thousands?
Get a trainer, get those dogs in basic obedience classes, you need to start taking control and your fiancee especially needs to learn how to manage dogs. Obedience classes are fairly inexpensive, you guys can make it a family thing.
I agree with everything that's been said...it's apparent that you guys have a lot to learn about owning dogs - adding a second puppy, and a same-sex one at that, when the current two dogs are untrained is a recipe for disaster! BTW, many 4-5 month old pups are not reliably house-trained. One other thing - if you are planning on having children, you absolutely, utterly must proof all dogs in your home with kids, starting yesterday. Don't think a small dog is harmless. Toy dogs have mained and even killed babies and toddlers.
I have always had all females in the house as permanent dogs and never really had a problem with same sex dogs getting along, but they were all spayed and I did not get them all at once. I spaced them out years apart so if one passed away there would always be one or two. I have had up to 7-10 dogs total in the house for a few days while fostering and all were mixed sexes, but since my own dogs were housebroken and trained they set the standard and example for the other dogs to follow. The puppies would follow my own dog outside and back. I had to have my own house in order to introduce additional animals even if temporarily.
I can attest first hand about the maiming and killng and the min-pin I had, which was the only male in the house, killed two of my foster puppies. He could not handle my bringing anything into the house after he had been adopted. You run a higher risk of the Pap killing the Lab than the other way around and even though the one was crated and gated it still happened and believe me you don't ever want to come home and see something like that. There was a woman who wanted him as a dog for her 8 year old daughter's birthday and I couldn't get it through her thick head that while this dog was okay around children it was not a child's dog. If the kids were just visiting grandma and grandpa in a supervised environment that was one thing, but not a pet solely for a child. Abosolutely not.
I have always had all females in the house as permanent dogs and never really had a problem with same sex dogs getting along, but they were all spayed and I did not get them all at once. I spaced them out years apart so if one passed away there would always be one or two. I have had up to 7-10 dogs total in the house for a few days while fostering and all were mixed sexes, but since my own dogs were housebroken and trained they set the standard and example for the other dogs to follow. The puppies would follow my own dog outside and back. I had to have my own house in order to introduce additional animals even if temporarily.
I can attest first hand about the maiming and killng and the min-pin, which was the only male in the house, I had killed two of my foster puppies. He could not handle my bringing anything into the house after he had been adopted. You run a higher risk of the Pap killing the Lab than the other way around and even though the one was crated and gated it still happened and believe me you don't ever want to come home and see something like that. There was a woman who wanted him as a dog for her 8 year old daughter's birthday and I couldn't get it through her thick head that while this dog was okay around children it was not a child's dog. If the kids were just visiting grandma and grandpa in a supervised environment that was one thing, but not a pet solely for a child. Abosolutely not.
It really is a recipie for disaster.
I have three males (pit bull x lab foster, Lab, Rottweiler - the Rottweiler is still intact) and they are fine, but the Rottweiler and foster are close in age, so when I leave the house one is crated, I do on alternate days. The Rottweiler is 11 months, the pittie mix about 8 months.
My JRT x is definitely the bossy byatch....I've had female fosters but have to be careful with her. I won't bring in a similar-aged, bossy or hyper female dog to the house. Many years ago when I wasn't so savvy, I had a bossy old girl, a smaller female and a male Rottweiler. I fostered a Chow mix, and stupidly left the house after I'd had her for a week with all dogs loose in the house. Stupid, stupid, stupid. My ex came home to a bloodbath...literally. Luckily no dogs were killed but the vet bills were enormous, I felt beyond guilty. It happened because I was inexperienced and therefore careless....I learned from that for sure.
I also lived for almost two years with two male Rottweilers who loathed each other - luckily at the time I was living in a large house with two separate fenced yards, so we could rotate the dogs. Also there were no children in the house, so we managed - but it was still far from ideal. And these were well trained dogs - both with obedience titles, one an agility champion and therapy dog - but none of that mattered. They hated each other and that was it. When the ex and I split up, he took one dog and I took the other. We had one "oops" and the dogs got into a fight (I was home alone) and it was incredibly scary. I managed to get them apart without being bitten and they did little damage to each other but trust me, you don't want this.
OP - this really can happen, and in the blink of an eye, too. One other thing, as a general rule - male dogs fight to show dominance, often it's loud and scary but they don't inflict serious damage. Female dogs often fight to kill. Your Lab x pup and the Pap pup's attitudes will change as they grow older, and your older Pap is running the show and needs major attitude adjustment. In your situation, I would not be leaving any of these dogs unattended together, ever. Or at least until they've matured and been trained and lived together without tension for a long time.
I am sorry about your min-pin, Thursday. That was a tough and very brave decision you made.
ok snce when was telling the op to get rid of their dog or calling them a hoarder HELPFULL...
its not and has no basis in reality....
the 2 paps were stated to be the op's fiances, they "come with the girlfrined" kind of situation and mabe the op wanted a dog of their own...
i personally know many people with multiple large breeds in much smaller spaces that do fine...
i do agree that getting a puppy while still having such issues with the 2 paps was a silly idea, but that does not mean the op needs to rehome the lab x OR is a hoarder, simply an uninformed dog owner who came asking for help and ideas on how to better rectify the situation.
there is no reason to rehome this dog IF the op and fiancee are willing to put in the time and effort to properly retrain the paps and continue to train the lab x, 3 dogs in an aparmtnet is noting, especially when 2 of those dogs are toy breeds...
ok snce when was telling the op to get rid of their dog or calling them a hoarder HELPFULL...
its not and has no basis in reality....
the 2 paps were stated to be the op's fiances, they "come with the girlfrined" kind of situation and mabe the op wanted a dog of their own...
i personally know many people with multiple large breeds in much smaller spaces that do fine...
i do agree that getting a puppy while still having such issues with the 2 paps was a silly idea, but that does not mean the op needs to rehome the lab x OR is a hoarder, simply an uninformed dog owner who came asking for help and ideas on how to better rectify the situation.
there is no reason to rehome this dog IF the op and fiancee are willing to put in the time and effort to properly retrain the paps and continue to train the lab x, 3 dogs in an aparmtnet is noting, especially when 2 of those dogs are toy breeds...
ok snce when was telling the op to get rid of their dog or calling them a hoarder HELPFULL...
its not and has no basis in reality....
the 2 paps were stated to be the op's fiances, they "come with the girlfrined" kind of situation and mabe the op wanted a dog of their own...
i personally know many people with multiple large breeds in much smaller spaces that do fine...
i do agree that getting a puppy while still having such issues with the 2 paps was a silly idea, but that does not mean the op needs to rehome the lab x OR is a hoarder, simply an uninformed dog owner who came asking for help and ideas on how to better rectify the situation.
there is no reason to rehome this dog IF the op and fiancee are willing to put in the time and effort to properly retrain the paps and continue to train the lab x, 3 dogs in an aparmtnet is noting, especially when 2 of those dogs are toy breeds...
First, the suggestions and points were brought up so that the OP might stand back and really take a look at the situation and the reality is the 2 dogs have been treated that way for a long time and it will take a tremendous amount of effort, which most people who have let their pets do things a certain way for a long time, do not and will not put the time and effort into. It's simply not that easy, it takes a lot of time and work. The reality is most people do not do it.
Secondly, is it right to keep a dog that is absolutely miserable just because it makes you happy. Where is the compassion for the dog in all of this.
Third, the aspect of animal hoarding is this statement,
"involves keeping higher than usual numbers of animals as domestic petswithout having the ability to properly house or care for them, while at the same time denying this inability." Ability means more than putting food, water and a bed down for a dog and calling it a day.
I read the OP's post and they currently do not have the ability to properly house and care for thier needs and are denying this inability. It's pretty clear. Whether they chose to change this is what is debatable. That's up to the OP.
So, if simply taking a minute and stand back away from the situation one might be too close to with ideas and options and circumstances and a variety of information is not helpful I don't know what is.
but your judging "properly housing" based on the comment of bieng in an apartment...care for their needs simply based on a lack of noweldge on how to correct the situation and the fact the op is asking for help in my mind says they are not deniying their inability to recitfy this situation instead making effort to fix it...
you ONLY have the information given to you on a public forum, you dont have thier work or excersize scheduals or how many miles a day they walk or if they go for hikes ont he weekends ect...
so no, calling someone a hoarder based on a very limited amount of information is not "making them step back" its simply calling them a hoarder based on a limited amount of information.
according to your defination of "properly housing" im a hoarder, i have a macaw, 2 parakeets, 2 dogs and 2 cats plus a large fish tank in 400sqft of space, both my dogs while being small breeds are related to their sighthound family and require a great deal of excersize which they obivoulsy cannot get in 400sqft...
but see how that works, you dont have ALL the information...
it wasnt helpfull, infact it came across as down right snarky.
simply stating it might be better to rehome the lab mix would have been one thing...
but flat out calling someone a hoarder...that crosses a line.
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That was a tough and very brave decision you made.
