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My kids and I went to the park today and there was a sweet stray. I'm not sure what breed she is but she looks like she could have some pit in her. Anyway, she was great with people and the kids but my friend called animal control on her. I couldn't stand the thought of her going to the shelter and most likely being put down. We live in a city that is really bad about those things and all the no kill shelters are full.
I brought her home to introduce her to my husky and it didn't go well at all. I have them separated now. Is there anyway to get these two girls to get along? Is all hope lost? I plan to get her to the vet and well regardless. Will I need to find her a home without dogs?
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
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1. I've heard that two female dogs are often difficult to integrate.
2. You should probably have introduced them on neutral territory, not in your husky's domain.
Maybe you could take them on a walk together and see how they react to each other? Ideally, you'd walk one on leash and someone else would walk the other because, if it doesn't go well, you holding both leashes is a recipe for disaster.
I always thought Artie hated other dogs. He'd "proven" that to me over the 6 years that he's been with me of his 9.5-year life. I got divorced, we moved home to Montreal, I'm happy and relaxed, and so is he... and he loves every single dog we meet.
This is the most challenging endeavor in all of dog training: trying to get dogs who don't like each other to get along. A bad first impression can be overcome, but in a case where the 2 dogs have had multiple serious fights I do usually recommend strict management (never putting them together) or rehoming.
Just because this dog was not fond of your dog does not mean she won't do well with any other dogs. Some dogs have a "type" that they tend to do best with. Often it will be a dog of the opposite sex. Sometimes age comes into play, the dog will prefer the company of older or younger dogs and will not tolerate dogs close in age to herself. Size can also be a factor. This dog might do better with a much larger or much smaller friend. How the dogs' individual energy levels match up is another aspect that determines whether the pair will get along.
Here is my guide on dog introductions to maximize chances that the 2 will get along:
Step 1: Parallel walk. This means both dogs on leash are walked together at a brisk pace. Neither dog is ahead / behind, but rather are kept parallel. Distance apart is dictated by the dogs' signals. Any tension, staring, barking means move them further apart, they are "over threshold" and too close for comfort. Once you see the dogs sniffing the ground and taking their eyes off one another you know you are at the correct distance apart and are making progress in the introduction. You can gradually move the dogs closer, continuing to walk, as long as you are seeing the ground sniffing, forward looking behaviors (or as long as the dogs are not staring at eachother, barking, etc.)
Step 2: Close proximity = reward and relax. Once the dogs have walked side by side and almost seem to have grown bored with one another, it is time to rest with the dogs in close proximity. They will not be encouraged to meet yet, but will instead interact a bit with their individual handlers. Offer a treat or 2 and massage & pet to build the association that being close to the other dog means good things happen.
Step 3: Off leash interaction.
First, my rant about why off leash..
Leashes ruin everything!!! The first time your dog really interacts with her new friend, you want both dogs to have total freedom of movement both to retreat and to express the full range of body language dogs use to communicate. Owners will often feel much safer with their dogs restrained by leashes when greeting a new dog - what they don't realize is that leashes cause problems instead of providing an easy solution. Dogs feel restricted and therefor automatically more defensive on leash. Their ability to get away from the situation is reduced so by taking away their flight option we leave them only with 'fight'. A too-tight leash can prevent the dog from displaying low, wiggly greeting behaviors meant to convey the message to the approaching dog "I'm friendly and harmless" and instead can force the dog into a posture that says "I'm looking for a fight". Leashes WILL get tangled if the dogs perform the proper greeting ritual which I will describe later. Owners want the safety net of the leash so that they can rip the dogs apart if a spat breaks out. But this is not a good way to break up a fight anyway. (My preferred method in such a case would be to place a large object between the dogs to first break their visual and physical access to one another. Then each handler can either herd (like a border collie!) their dog back away to a safe distance from the other dog or physically move them away and then clip leashes back on the dogs once they're apart.)
Now on to what the off-leash greeting should look like. It is a beautiful thing really that once you see hundreds of pairs of dogs do it becomes like a familiar movie. It plays out basically the same way each time. The greeting will typically start face to face but should not linger in this region, sniffing should promptly move in an arc, with noses following the side of the other dog's body and ending up at the rear. When you see the dogs sniffing each other's behinds with their bodies in an arc shape, you've reached the last step of the initial introduction ritual. That face-side-butt sniff is comparable to the human handshake. It is a "nice to meet ya my name is ___" for dogs.
So after the arc sniffing ritual is done, you might see any range of interaction between the dogs. They may both "shake off" and have little interest in playing. They may offer play bows (lowering the front end and sticking the rear in the air) and run and chase. If you've spent the time on Parallel Walking and Close Proximity Reward & Relax (Steps 1 & 2 above) you've set the dogs up for their best possible chance of getting along.
This is the most challenging endeavor in all of dog training: trying to get dogs who don't like each other to get along. A bad first impression can be overcome, but in a case where the 2 dogs have had multiple serious fights I do usually recommend strict management (never putting them together) or rehoming.
Just because this dog was not fond of your dog does not mean she won't do well with any other dogs. Some dogs have a "type" that they tend to do best with. Often it will be a dog of the opposite sex. Sometimes age comes into play, the dog will prefer the company of older or younger dogs and will not tolerate dogs close in age to herself. Size can also be a factor. This dog might do better with a much larger or much smaller friend. How the dogs' individual energy levels match up is another aspect that determines whether the pair will get along.
Here is my guide on dog introductions to maximize chances that the 2 will get along:
Step 1: Parallel walk. This means both dogs on leash are walked together at a brisk pace. Neither dog is ahead / behind, but rather are kept parallel. Distance apart is dictated by the dogs' signals. Any tension, staring, barking means move them further apart, they are "over threshold" and too close for comfort. Once you see the dogs sniffing the ground and taking their eyes off one another you know you are at the correct distance apart and are making progress in the introduction. You can gradually move the dogs closer, continuing to walk, as long as you are seeing the ground sniffing, forward looking behaviors (or as long as the dogs are not staring at eachother, barking, etc.)
Step 2: Close proximity = reward and relax. Once the dogs have walked side by side and almost seem to have grown bored with one another, it is time to rest with the dogs in close proximity. They will not be encouraged to meet yet, but will instead interact a bit with their individual handlers. Offer a treat or 2 and massage & pet to build the association that being close to the other dog means good things happen.
Step 3: Off leash interaction.
First, my rant about why off leash..
Leashes ruin everything!!! The first time your dog really interacts with her new friend, you want both dogs to have total freedom of movement both to retreat and to express the full range of body language dogs use to communicate. Owners will often feel much safer with their dogs restrained by leashes when greeting a new dog - what they don't realize is that leashes cause problems instead of providing an easy solution. Dogs feel restricted and therefor automatically more defensive on leash. Their ability to get away from the situation is reduced so by taking away their flight option we leave them only with 'fight'. A too-tight leash can prevent the dog from displaying low, wiggly greeting behaviors meant to convey the message to the approaching dog "I'm friendly and harmless" and instead can force the dog into a posture that says "I'm looking for a fight". Leashes WILL get tangled if the dogs perform the proper greeting ritual which I will describe later. Owners want the safety net of the leash so that they can rip the dogs apart if a spat breaks out. But this is not a good way to break up a fight anyway. (My preferred method in such a case would be to place a large object between the dogs to first break their visual and physical access to one another. Then each handler can either herd (like a border collie!) their dog back away to a safe distance from the other dog or physically move them away and then clip leashes back on the dogs once they're apart.)
Now on to what the off-leash greeting should look like. It is a beautiful thing really that once you see hundreds of pairs of dogs do it becomes like a familiar movie. It plays out basically the same way each time. The greeting will typically start face to face but should not linger in this region, sniffing should promptly move in an arc, with noses following the side of the other dog's body and ending up at the rear. When you see the dogs sniffing each other's behinds with their bodies in an arc shape, you've reached the last step of the initial introduction ritual. That face-side-butt sniff is comparable to the human handshake. It is a "nice to meet ya my name is ___" for dogs.
So after the arc sniffing ritual is done, you might see any range of interaction between the dogs. They may both "shake off" and have little interest in playing. They may offer play bows (lowering the front end and sticking the rear in the air) and run and chase. If you've spent the time on Parallel Walking and Close Proximity Reward & Relax (Steps 1 & 2 above) you've set the dogs up for their best possible chance of getting along.
This is great advice. I also think it will be challenging with the 2 breeds that you mention. It's probably best to get some help unless you are an experienced dog handler.
my dog is horrible on-leash in general, and great off-leash. I take him to the dog park and as I am walking him on-leash to the gate he is generally very amped up, defensive, and sometimes goes bonkers if he even sees a dog. The moment I get him off leash and let him run inside it is like he is a totally different dog, all he typically wants to do is play and have fun.
Still have a problem with him barking incessantly at specific things, like very large fluffy dogs, and older bald, bearded men. Not sure how to fix that, but sometimes it makes people nervous and that's when I leave.
It was very kind of you to help this stray. All dogs can live together it's a matter of if the humans know how to facilitate it AND evaluate the stray (in this case) or the existing dog. This assumes a calm assertive, balanced pack leader human is in charge to begin with.
Be careful, a dog fight could be really bad for everyone. Don't do any of this stuff if it is the least bit "risky" (putting them together). Or at least have your husband or someone calm on one leash and you or someone else on the other SAFELY. IF your Husky tried to actually BITE the stray don't ever have them together without at least him wearing a muzzle but that's a whole other "problem".
WHO started the "problem"? This is key. (I mean which dog not which human LOL) It sounds like you are saying the stray but it's understandable she was nervous and in a defensive mode and I'm going to guess because of excitement AND the Husky!
What is his personality?
I agree that walking together is the best thing BUT without more detail I'd say....you are not the pack leader in your home.
Your Husky is either dominant or insecure if he had a problem with the new one. Of course it's all in the way you introduce them but still, he should trust you to not let anything happen. In theory your Husky should have completely avoided the stray if he was concerned that the stray had unhealthy energy. Even tho it's his house, he should in theory KNOW that you are "allowed" to bring ANYONE into that house dog or human or HORSE, because it's YOUR territory first. IF HE ignored her and she went up to him inappropriately, and he reacted then she had some weakness in her "dog manners" but it is very tricky and she could have been perfectly polite and HE reacted "wrong". If they were BOTH balanced energy and you were there calmly facilitating it they BOTH should have been "fine". In theory.
If the stray used "bad manners" in his introduction it could have kicked off a reaction from the Husky but the Husky needs to do WHATEVER you tell him if you're his pack leader. And by "tell" I mean very little words and actions, just basic direction. In fact a follower dog needs NO direction if he's balanced in he knows exactly what to do. If it was the stray it's completely predictable if you introduced them with excited or nervous energy around him whether from the humans or the husky.
Did the stray approach the Husky in a pushy way and not back off? Or try to go "after him" appearing to bite? What exactly happened did it happen too fast to actually see or can you describe it?
You said "it didn't go well". But without knowing what happened it's hard to give an assessment. You have to start with YOU being the calm energy and protect both dogs from fighting. This requires leashes but no TENSION on the leash. NO dog should fight against a leash in the hands of an experienced leader with calm energy and who knows how to read dog body language.
I'm a dog walker.
Do not let them meet face to face, that's a fight. Do not let them have toys or any food together. That's a fight. And do not let your Husky claim YOU or your family. That's a fight. And keep kids away till you get it sorted out. Put a baby gate up and let them "meet" through the gate without humans around making noise and excitement. Sit by the gate and do nothing and don't talk...just let the stray smell you and get to trust your energy...sit sideways don't stare at him in the face....but if your Husky tries to charge the gate stand up and tell him SHHHH - and make him retreat and calmly sit there politely doing NOTHING. He is allowed to sit close-ish like 4 feet away or go closer if he's nice and calm and only smelling gently.
If you can't read body language (eyes, ears, tail) it may be hard for you to do this without drama. But if you can it could be easy. Hard to say, sorry! If your Husky is the type to be exhuberant, excitable, dominant or pushy, you'll probably not be able to do all this - you can't change overnight without help from a professional. But it CAN be done! And you may end up with a more calm follower Husky as a side benefit! Good luck!
OR SORRY I should be saying SHE I guess for the Husky, I just noticed.
P.S. and WHATEVER YOU DO DO NOT USE A "COMFORTING VOICE" - Like baby talk or weak voice saying "That's ok, that's ok" blah blah blah to either one. to a dog that sounds like WORRY and you will make them both worried and insecure OR dominant thinking YOU are worried! Don't even talk alot just be a strong confident calm presence - if one gets out of hand or excited say "shhhh" and direct them to stop and calm down...and give them time to get familiar. With a gate at least today till you know if you can do it or not.
Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-08-2013 at 08:12 AM..
Leashes ruin everything!!! The first time your dog really interacts with her new friend, you want both dogs to have total freedom of movement both to retreat and to express the full range of body language dogs use to communicate. Owners will often feel much safer with their dogs restrained by leashes when greeting a new dog - what they don't realize is that leashes cause problems instead of providing an easy solution. .
Sorry, I totally disagree with you. It's the energy of the human on the end of the leash that "ruins everything". And it starts in the HOUSE not outside on or off the leash.
Every single dog in the world will act correctly on a leash and not even care about the leash if it's just on there with no tension even if there are other dogs around or not IF THE HUMAN is "right" and the basics are there. Calm assertive energy and pack leadership 24/7 starting in the house.
You CANNOT have two random dogs "have total freedom of movement" if you don't know them both or understand what's going on body language wise - because it only takes one error to cause a problem. Like a dominant one putting his head over the other one who does NOT appreciate it and won't hesitate to let him know. Then the owners freaking out and chaos ensuing. This even happens ON leash because people let their imbalanced dogs do whatever they want and unknowingly cause the "problem" thinking "it's cute". Like their dog jumping up on the other dog's owner or charging the new unknown dog head on with imbalanced energy.
my dog is horrible on-leash in general, and great off-leash. I take him to the dog park and as I am walking him on-leash to the gate he is generally very amped up, defensive, and sometimes goes bonkers if he even sees a dog. The moment I get him off leash and let him run inside it is like he is a totally different dog, all he typically wants to do is play and have fun.
Still have a problem with him barking incessantly at specific things, like very large fluffy dogs, and older bald, bearded men. Not sure how to fix that, but sometimes it makes people nervous and that's when I leave.
Your energy is being sent down that leash to him. He's just exuberant without boundaries or limitations it sounds like. Since he doesn't end up in other dogs getting annoyed with his energy. IT's probably that he feels YOUR tension when you see another dog and is reacting to THAT from habits being established and your energy thinking you're getting "prepared" for him to go bonkers.
OK do not enter that park until he is CALM. Don't use tension on the leash pulling back. Make him be calm in the car and before getting out. Make him be calm before going IN the park. Not easy but it's the solution. It starts at home. He has to be calm before going out the door. My guess is he's so excited and happy he just charges out first and you wander out after him LOL He's not allowed to go out any doors FIRST, you claim that door area and invite him to go through after or next to you. AFTER he stands there or sits there and calmly looks at you for "permission" or direction. This applies to everything like when people ring the doorbell. YOU claim that door area and he can sit there greeting people but not charge them or jump up or push ahead of you just because he's "cute" LOL.
You have to follow through with PATIENCE and calm energy not being excited or talking alot yourself...and stand there making him be CALM for as long as it takes. Calm includes all four feet firmly planted on the ground (or sitting there) and looking up at YOU for direction when he's ready and has his head on straight knowing he's not moving FORWARD until you let him.That ONE FRONT PAW up in the air signals he READY TO GO. NO. That foot has to be down firmly.
Again - NO tension on the leash is VERY IMPORTANT. From inside your house until you drive home. That's how he's going to calm down enough to walk normally on a leash. Could take a day or a month depending on you. For me it could take one day cuz I'm a dog walker so it's second nature for me - NO DOG goes forward if they're too excited. We stand and wait. LOL When I interview a new client I ask them to do NOTHING with the dog - no talking or petting or anything - so I can get to see how he acts and I ignore him after I walk in. They always go lay down and the owners say "OMG he never does that". That's because you and everyone else greets him all excited and he joins right in. If I ignore a dog he doesn't act like that 80% of the time within 3 minutes and 100% of the time within 6 minutes haha.
The way you fix that bald guy problem etc is a side benefit of all the above because he will trust YOU to be in control and not make up imaginary stuff to be in charge of. Since he can't drive or write checks, he needs someone else to be the leader
Last edited by runswithscissors; 06-08-2013 at 08:01 AM..
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Back to basics
He's just exuberant without boundaries or limitations it sounds like. Since he doesn't end up in other dogs getting annoyed with his energy. IT's probably that he feels YOUR tension when you see another dog and is reacting to THAT from habits being established and your energy thinking you're getting "prepared" for him to go bonkers. 
