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Hi,
I have been referring to this forum since long before we adopted our dog holly. She is an american bulldog mix, a petite girl about 40 lbs with a very soft look for a bully breed. Since we got her and she was fully vaccinated we have been participating in training, daycare and pack walks for socializing. She is the sweetest dog, and everyone at day care, as well as her trainers tell us she is a submissive girl. She can be a little insecure, and she is in a fear imprint stage right now, so we are doing alot of work retraining all of the skills and behaviors we have already invested in....
So now that she is just passed 1 year old...she cannot be off leash with us ever, she has tried to attack other dogs...she has tried to nip at the occasional person who tries to pet her (not all people, she loves people and will typically do anything for some pets). On leash she is inconsistent, we keep her beside or behind us at all times, and keep between her and other dogs on walks, because again on a couple of occasions she has gone crazy at an approaching dog.
Yesterday we had her at the lake for 2 hours, so lots of swimming and always on leash when on the shore (poor girl she was the only one) there were kids and dogs around and she watched them from time to time, but never reactive it was a really nice day. At the end of 2 hours a labradoodle approached us very cheerfully not aggressively or fast,, and holly went insane, she was trying to get at the other dog, and bit my partner, as he was between them, she looked like a fighting cage dog, it was so wild and so intense and so aggressive we had to pin her down and ask the other dog owners to keep their dogs away while we tried to calm her. We ended up leaving immediately as everyone on the beach was staring in horror.
Our trainers is saying more socializing,but again this girl spends half her time at day care where they have seen no indication of this behavior at all.
We are trying to be thick skinned about it, but its devastating, I feel like I am completely failing this dog, and also do not believe for a second that it is her breed or in her nature. She is so sweet and loving.
I trust my trainer but am looking for more advice, suggestions, or anyone who has gone through this and came out with a good dog.
Thanks all!
How many more bites are you willing to tolerate? You have a real problem on your hands and as the dog gets older and stronger in my opinion it could get much worse.
My opinion is that you seek a professional opinion from a vet as to what options you may have. Chances are they will know the best course of action that may be less biased and anecdotal than those from an internet forum.
I'm not knocking anyone here, but this is a serious matter and other animals could be in jeapordy ( or people ). Good luck.
I would say don't give up on her. She had a lot of stimulation in a unfamiliar place, it may be too much for her right now. Her issues need to be addressed and it may not happen as quickly as you want.
Our dog Sophie was great with her dog friends in their home turf, years ago we took her to a crowded park with way too many people and strange things and she went full Cujo. I failed her, it took a long time for me to understand that she wasn't ready for that situation and she did not fully feel secure and safe with us. I should have had a trainer but though I could work it out, eventually I did but it took years. She's a happy and secure dog now who trusts that I will protect her, she is under verbal command and travels all over with us to crowded strange places. Work hard and give your dog the time to feel secure with you.
and also do not believe for a second that it is her breed or in her nature. She is so sweet and loving.
The first thing you need to do is realize that it absolutely couldbe in her nature or breed. Until you do this, you are living in denial and cannot help the dog.
There are many breeds that have been bred for 100s or thousands of years as fighting dogs and this instinct or "gameness" does not just disappear in the genes overnight. Over the last 20 years we have been absolutely brainwashed by rescue groups to believe that all of these dogs are gentle "nannies" or family dogs, when the sad fact is, that most of them and their mixes come from generations of being randomly bred for dog aggression by the worst of the worst of backyard hood puppy producers. These are not breeds that should be placed into homes with small kids and inexperienced owners without proper evaluations - they are not Labs or Poodles.
That being said, it may not be stemming from her breed or mix at all. It could be that she simply suffers from fear aggression, general poor breeding, or numbers of other things that cannot be helped over the internet.
A good trainer who can work with and evaluate her in person is your best bet. Good luck and hope she pulls out of this!
PS. Anytime a dog shows this amount of aggression with biting people, euthanasia should be on the table as a possible future option. Some people tolerate dogs that attack humans, others have a zero tolerance policy. It's up to you how much you want to put your neighbors and their children at risk in the future if the dog does not recover from this behavior.
So, if you insist on keeping such a dog, then why do you insist on taking her to places that have other dogs, kids etc? Are you just asking for trouble? i
Hi,
I have been referring to this forum since long before we adopted our dog holly. She is an american bulldog mix, a petite girl about 40 lbs with a very soft look for a bully breed. Since we got her and she was fully vaccinated we have been participating in training, daycare and pack walks for socializing. She is the sweetest dog, and everyone at day care, as well as her trainers tell us she is a submissive girl. She can be a little insecure, and she is in a fear imprint stage right now, so we are doing alot of work retraining all of the skills and behaviors we have already invested in....
So now that she is just passed 1 year old...she cannot be off leash with us ever, she has tried to attack other dogs...she has tried to nip at the occasional person who tries to pet her (not all people, she loves people and will typically do anything for some pets). On leash she is inconsistent, we keep her beside or behind us at all times, and keep between her and other dogs on walks, because again on a couple of occasions she has gone crazy at an approaching dog.
Yesterday we had her at the lake for 2 hours, so lots of swimming and always on leash when on the shore (poor girl she was the only one) there were kids and dogs around and she watched them from time to time, but never reactive it was a really nice day. At the end of 2 hours a labradoodle approached us very cheerfully not aggressively or fast,, and holly went insane, she was trying to get at the other dog, and bit my partner, as he was between them, she looked like a fighting cage dog, it was so wild and so intense and so aggressive we had to pin her down and ask the other dog owners to keep their dogs away while we tried to calm her. We ended up leaving immediately as everyone on the beach was staring in horror.
Our trainers is saying more socializing,but again this girl spends half her time at day care where they have seen no indication of this behavior at all.
We are trying to be thick skinned about it, but its devastating, I feel like I am completely failing this dog, and also do not believe for a second that it is her breed or in her nature. She is so sweet and loving.
I trust my trainer but am looking for more advice, suggestions, or anyone who has gone through this and came out with a good dog.
Thanks all!
I wish I had better answers for you.
If Holly is nipping people and attacking other dogs in an "insane" way at 1 year, then she is going to be more aggressive (possibly fear-aggressive, which is perhaps harder to work with than dominance in a dog) as she matures and by the age of two or three you may not be able to have her at doggie day care and will have more problems - unless you get a better handle on the situation.
Some dogs, not necessarily pit bull/american bulldogs/bull 'types' and mixes, are just less social and more insecure and/or aggressive than others. You say that you adopted Holly; at what age did you bring her into your home? Do you have any idea about the circumstances of her early life? If she was a street puppy, or poorly socialized/neglected during the first three months of her life, it could have increased her insecurity and inconsistent response to people.
What concerns me here is though you say that Holly loves people, she nips some of them. If she is nipping people who try to pet her when she is a year old, she could be biting, and biting hard, at people who try to pet her when she is three. I have met some American Bulldogs; and I do think the breed has some dog-aggressive tendencies, which doesn't mean that every American Bulldog is dangerous to all other dogs, but that more of that breed could be difficult with other dogs than would a Newfoundland. But they aren't supposed to be nipping at friendly people.
If you have a yard, fence it and exercise Holly there. I would be very cautious about exposing her to other dogs, on a leash or otherwise, except in training situations. Have you observed whether Holly seems to react aggressively to other unknown dogs when she is not on a leash? Some dogs' aggression is increased when they are on-leash, because they feel attached to you and bound to protect you, and also, if they are nervous, they cannot escape from the source of their fear and thus might feel they have no choice but to go on the attack. Has Holly ever nipped or bitten another dog; and if she has, what were the circumstances - was she on the leash or not, were other dogs present, or was there just one other dog? (not all dogs love every other dog in sight; my dog sometimes gets huffy if mobbed by two or three or more dogs at the dog park; but he is slow to do anything more than raise his tail and grumble; and happy to walk away from a confrontation, and has never hurt another dog; when I see him raise his tail, I usually move him away from dogs who may be causing the reaction).
You must learn to watch Holly's every move and try to understand her body language as much as possible. Does she growl before she nips a human, does she shrink back, is her tail tucked or wagging gently or wagging frantically (a wagging tail does not always indicate joy, it can indicate excitement/alarm); are her eyes calm or are the whites of her eyes showing? Is she moving her head away from the stranger as he/she bends down to pet her? Sometimes friendly strangers don't understand how to approach a dog and descend their enthusiastic hands down from over the dog's head and the dog can be intimidated rather than pleased; and a dog who is nervous might "nip" in that situation. But since Holly is an American Bulldog mix, a nip from her could be taken far more seriously than a nip from a Toy Poodle; and again, the danger is also that if she is nipping strangers at a year old, it is very possible that Holly will be biting strangers when she is in her prime, unless you can alter this behavior.
If your trainer is encouraging you to "socialize" Holly by exposing her to more strangers, after she has nipped some who have tried to pet her, please find a new trainer before his/her advice lands you in a lawsuit. The trainer is right in that socialization is important in a puppy and growing dog, but if that socialization is resulting in a year-old dog nipping people who are trying to pet her, then it's time to change the mode of socialization or dial it back. If some child bends down to try to pet Holly, and Holly nips at the child's face and connects...well, you don't want that to happen, not now, not ever.
Unfortunately, I feel that you must face the fact that there is some (at least!) insecurity and fear-aggression in Holly's nature. Whether it comes from her genes (American Bulldog + Whatever) or the situation into which she was born and spent her first 3 months, or the training and environment you have given her since then, or a combination of all three influence, you have a dog who, while sweet with you, is exhibiting very troubling behavior for a year-old dog, nipping friendly strangers and attacking other dogs in an intense manner. Please get the right trainer for her; it is not too late for Holly yet - but it will be if her nipping escalates into biting of people, which it definitely could. (I define 'nipping' as a light bite that breaks the skin but inflicts minimal damage, like a shaving cut or puncture with a bruise; troubling, but not extremely dangerous, but something to be watched for and prevented, and more alarming in a year-old dog than in a mature or senior dog. A bite is more serious, and can be traumatic or even life-threatening, depending on the severity.)
I have had a nervous dog who would bluster at other dogs with great intensity, but never hurt any of them, and did nip a couple of people, despite having been well socialized from a very young age; and she was not any of the "bull" breeds. Most dogs did not take her seriously; and, luckily, the two times that she nipped a person (long after she was a year old), she barely broke the skin, though I felt bad and offered to be responsible for the 'damage'. After that, I watched her even more closely and there were no more instances. She was not a dog I could trust to be physically close to many other dogs on-leash or off without barking/growling/lunging behavior, though I thought most of it was bravado, I never wanted any fights to start. Mostly I found places to have her off-leash that were very large in acreage so that physical proximity to other dogs was infrequent (and the other dogs could be seen from far off and my dog leashed before they came near). My current dog is usually polite with other dogs, unless crowded by a group of them, but not really into playing with them (of course, he is not a puppy anymore, at Holly's age, he was definitely still playful).
I would not let her off leash where other dogs could be around ever.
As far as her biting your partner goes, a friend had one of her dogs bite her when she broke up a fight he had gotten into with her other dog. She talked to the vet about it and he said it was redirected aggression, he couldn't get to the other dog and he was so frustrated he bit her instead. The dog lived to be 14 and it never happened again. Generally, he was the sweetest dog on the planet. He was a corgi, not a breed with aggressive tendencies.
I would talk to the trainer but if she's otherwise not an aggressive dog and you and your partner are both clearly alpha to her it may not be an issue again. I don't know that I'd let her around children or other people who aren't dog savvy. It may be that her fear will always be with her and if that's the case, you never know when she will feel she needs to protect herself. No sense IMO putting her in a position where it's an issue.
first thing id do is get her a vet check...
my am-bulldog mastiff mix started acting "randomly" aggressive at about 1 yr old...turned out to be a massive rain tumor...
2: accept that she is an American bulldog mix...it IS in their bature to become proective and dog aggressive with maturity (2 yrs of age) if this is starting now, you've got more to come.
I LOVE bulldogs (and bully breeds in general) but you MUST accept if you bring a bully breed into your life that they have been BRED over the years to have specific genetic traits...they DO have a strong drive, they DO tend towards dog aggression, the DO tend towards prey drive, and American bulldogs do tend towards some stranger wareyness...
these tendencies tend to be nowhere to be seein in a pup and come as the dog begins to mature...
theres nothing wrong with these traits, but you must accept that just like some breeds are bred to have strong herding instinct and some bred to have a strong drive to sniff...its what the dog is...and no amount of training will turn off those ingrained markers...
training does help a dog build confidence and better judge if the situation calls for specific reactions...
also without knowing her mix or her background theres just no saying whats back there ot be ertain of anything in terms of breed traits.
3: you said it yourself your going through a fear stage right now...so my next piece of advice is CONTROLED SITUATIONS ONLY...during this stage seemingly simple reactions to nothing can suddenly get locked into place based on a sneeze or the wrong reward mark...might be worth talking to the trainers and finding a Group class where she can interact with strange dogs and people in a 100% fully controlled environment...at the lake she was probably worked up, excited, and suddenly this strange dog approaches and she just whent for it...
you need to expose her to situations where she can sit quietly surrounded by others but not be approached by them for awhile...
id also suggest this with people...unfortunately some people are clueless and if shes going to react agresivly on occasion she needs to be exposed only to people in an environment where she doesn't have to...
unfortunately the word "submissive" is probably where your issue lays...submissive is NOT a good thing...(despite what SOME people will have you belive...(neither is dominant) a "submissive" dog is typically fearfull and underconfident, and this they begin to react to the frightening/suprising elements with whatever behavior gets the fastest response...in her case shes quickly learning that making a lot of noise barking growling, snapping an dbiting is getting the "back off" response she wants.
id def suggest a vet check first, rule out any health issues...
then id suggest working closely with a trainer that's familiar with confidence building...id definalty suggest looking into Nikki Ivey's Dog Speak and stepping away from the "be the alpha" type mentalities...
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