Dominance theory and the alpha (biting, vet, wound, aggressive)
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Common misperceptions and misunderstandings of "dominance" and "alpha" cause untold grief for the dogs we love. This is an excellent short exposition on these concepts.
Thanks for posting this as I have never been behind the Alpha theory,Or things like the alpha roll .It was always obvious to me a wolf may submit to another but one was not throwing the other down. There is a huge difference in the two.
When friends that were would say things like you can not let your dogs go through the door first, or do not let them on your bed as they will become alpha and see you as lower ranking and challenge you I would laugh. I have never had a dog that challenged me or thought it was in charge. I would tell my friends the day the dogs go out get jobs start supporting me and feeding me and giving me things ( ie control the resources) then I will be worried or maybe not as having everything they have and not going to work sounds nice. Right now I control food, toys, walks, etc so I really am not worried if Chaos and Dazzle go out the door first as it is easier for me if they do or if they sleep on my bed.
Yeah, Cesar Millon is dangerous. He doesn't show all the mistakes and failures on his show. He makes it sound good but positive trainers are MUCH better. Read some of Dr. PAtricia McConnel's works (THe Other End of the Leash for one) or Sophia Yin's work.
I'm not worried about dominance either. My dogs love going on walks - so of course they are going to drag me out the door faster than I go can in order to go sniff the bushes and pee on the neighbor's mailbox.
We let our dogs sleep on the bed if we're just hanging out or watching TV, but at true night's out time, they automatically jump down and get on their own beds for the night. Never have I woken up to find them on the bed in the middle of the night. That's because we trained them properly. We don't even have to say "get down" - they know when the light goes off, they get down.
As for the alpha thing, I am absolutely the alpha when it comes to who they want to be with. Sure, they'll go for a head scratch from my husband, or lick the hand of my daughter. But when it comes to the resources and behavior (food, water, outside, walks, to bark or not to bark, to chase or not to chase) they look to me and follow my cues.
On a recent trip to my parents' house, I took my dogs over for the first time. They do not have a back fence, but I did not feel like walking them, so I tested their recall ability that weekend. My older dog, when he would head near the back property line, would merely veer off to the side if I said his name in a warning tone. After a couple attempts he never bothered walking back there again, even unsupervised.
My other dog is a bit more headstrong and has an extreme prey instinct, but he did REALLY well and only once did he run over the properly line, when in pursuit of a squirrel. But the minute I called his name, he stopped mid-run and turned, hightailing it back to me. He continued to "patrol" the back property line, but he never went over the property line again.
So, is that because I'm the alpha, or because I've trained my dogs really well? I think it's a combination of both. They won't take the training seriously if I'm not the alpha, IMO.
So, is that because I'm the alpha, or because I've trained my dogs really well? I think it's a combination of both. They won't take the training seriously if I'm not the alpha, IMO.
The "alpha" simply controls resources. For a dog, the definition of a "resource" is fluid, and relates to anything they desire at any given point in time. The best companion animal training teaches a dog that the human is the source of all wonderful things (resources) resulting in the dog finding more value in the human than in the other stuff/distractions that are "out there" in the world. Training, being in charge of resources, and how we interact with our dog in everyday life are all interchangeable and reinforce each other. So yes, I agree that there is a relationship between the training we do and the way we interact with our dogs.
Last edited by twelvepaw; 04-24-2015 at 01:52 PM..
Yeah, Cesar Millon is dangerous. He doesn't show all the mistakes and failures on his show. He makes it sound good but positive trainers are MUCH better. Read some of Dr. PAtricia McConnel's works (THe Other End of the Leash for one) or Sophia Yin's work.
I keep seeing statements like this in this forum (probably 6-8 in the last few weeks). I have read several of Cesar's books, a couple of McConnell's books (Other End of the Leash is great!), Fogle's book (The Dogs Mind), Fennell's book (Dog Listener), Horowitz's book (Inside of a Dog), along with a list of other minor authors (both good and bad) and have looked into several training methodologies. I volunteer at a local training club, and occasionally do foster and rehab work with my local shelter.
Cesar's basic dog training books for a novice owner looking to develop a good recall and a couple of primary commands are a great resource for the novice owner who is looking for an easy read that will allow them to accomplish that level of training, they are not a great source (nor are they intended to be) for advanced training methods and techniques. FYI, he does include positive reinforcement as a technique in training in the books he has written that I have read.
Cesar is NOT the devil incarnate. His show is based on dealing mostly with out of control dogs that need rehab. His methods demonstrated on his shows are NOT geared toward the everyday pet, they are geared toward problem animals that are on the path to being destroyed without some type of intervention. I once read a lengthy hit piece on Cesar by a vet because Cesar said a dog needs to "migrate" and this guy focused in on how dogs don't migrate. Technically he was right, dogs "range" they don't migrate, so we have a take down based on the misapplication of a word by a man who's first language is not English. Really? That's the best you got, Dr.?
McConnell's book is not training specific, it is behavioral in nature (as are Fogle and Horowitz), and while they are fascinating reads, and provide huge insight into reading and interpreting dog behavior and motivation, the reader is left to figure out how to turn that into a training program/training philosophy - i.e. they are LOUSY training books for novice dogowners! Fennell goes into some rehab training methods, but after reading her book cover to cover, she is a bit of a kook IMO.
And for the record, positive reinforcement only methodologies of training have their own limitations and problems - the dog gets a vote in what works for effective training methods.
Last edited by Tuck's Dad; 04-24-2015 at 04:05 PM..
I keep seeing statements like this in this forum (probably 6-8 in the last few weeks). I have read several of Cesar's books, a couple of McConnell's books (Other End of the Leash is great!), Fogle's book (The Dogs Mind), Fennell's book (Dog Listener), Horowitz's book (Inside of a Dog), along with a list of other minor authors (both good and bad) and have looked into several training methodologies. I volunteer at a local training club, and occasionally do foster and rehab work with my local shelter.
Cesar's basic dog training books for a novice owner looking to develop a good recall and a couple of primary commands are a great resource for the novice owner who is looking for an easy read that will allow them to accomplish that level of training, they are not a great source (nor are they intended to be) for advanced training methods and techniques. FYI, he does include positive reinforcement as a technique in training in the books he has written that I have read.
Cesar is NOT the devil incarnate. His show is based on dealing mostly with out of control dogs that need rehab. His methods demonstrated on his shows are NOT geared toward the everyday pet, they are geared toward problem animals that are on the path to being destroyed without some type of intervention. I once read a lengthy hit piece on Cesar by a vet because Cesar said a dog needs to "migrate" and this guy focused in on how dogs don't migrate. Technically he was right, dogs "range" they don't migrate, so we have a take down based on the misapplication of a word by a man who's first language is not English. Really? That's the best you got, Dr.?
McConnell's book is not training specific, it is behavioral in nature (as are Fogle and Horowitz), and while they are fascinating reads, and provide huge insight into reading and interpreting dog behavior and motivation, the reader is left to figure out how to turn that into a training program/training philosophy - i.e. they are LOUSY training books for novice dogowners! Fennell goes into some rehab training methods, but after reading her book cover to cover, she is a bit of a kook IMO.
And for the record, positive reinforcement only methodologies of training have their own limitations and problems - the dog gets a vote in what works for effective training methods.
Professional behaviorists who successfully work with aggressive dogs rarely, if ever, get bitten. Cesar has been bitten countless times. That pretty much says all that is needed about his approach to rehabbing dangerous dogs.
It would be very interesting to see a follow-up report on every single segment of The Dog Whisperer. I would be extremely surprised to see continued success with more than a handful of cases since Millan's approach is based on fear. These dogs are already fearful...fear is the motivating force behind the majority of aggression/ reactivity/out of control behaviors in dogs. He intimidates the dogs into submission...they are afraid to do anything else with this strange, new, very confident human who keeps poking and leash popping them...which does nothing to resolve the underlying fear and actually pushes it into hiding where it waits to erupt. Which can be more dangerous than the predictable bad behavior the dog was originally exhibiting.
In order to effectively change the behavior the underlying cause (fear) must be addressed. The fear must be counter conditioned into a different (pleasant) emotion.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that his pokes and leash pops are painful. I am saying they are merely a band aid and one that has been soaked in harmful bacteria before being applied to the open wound.
I keep seeing statements like this in this forum (probably 6-8 in the last few weeks). I have read several of Cesar's books, a couple of McConnell's books (Other End of the Leash is great!), Fogle's book (The Dogs Mind), Fennell's book (Dog Listener), Horowitz's book (Inside of a Dog), along with a list of other minor authors (both good and bad) and have looked into several training methodologies. I volunteer at a local training club, and occasionally do foster and rehab work with my local shelter.
Cesar's basic dog training books for a novice owner looking to develop a good recall and a couple of primary commands are a great resource for the novice owner who is looking for an easy read that will allow them to accomplish that level of training, they are not a great source (nor are they intended to be) for advanced training methods and techniques. FYI, he does include positive reinforcement as a technique in training in the books he has written that I have read.
Cesar is NOT the devil incarnate. His show is based on dealing mostly with out of control dogs that need rehab. His methods demonstrated on his shows are NOT geared toward the everyday pet, they are geared toward problem animals that are on the path to being destroyed without some type of intervention. I once read a lengthy hit piece on Cesar by a vet because Cesar said a dog needs to "migrate" and this guy focused in on how dogs don't migrate. Technically he was right, dogs "range" they don't migrate, so we have a take down based on the misapplication of a word by a man who's first language is not English. Really? That's the best you got, Dr.?
McConnell's book is not training specific, it is behavioral in nature (as are Fogle and Horowitz), and while they are fascinating reads, and provide huge insight into reading and interpreting dog behavior and motivation, the reader is left to figure out how to turn that into a training program/training philosophy - i.e. they are LOUSY training books for novice dogowners! Fennell goes into some rehab training methods, but after reading her book cover to cover, she is a bit of a kook IMO.
And for the record, positive reinforcement only methodologies of training have their own limitations and problems - the dog gets a vote in what works for effective training methods.
Nearly all of Trish McConnell's *booklets* are training specific. And they are priced very reasonably...something like $4...specifically to appeal to novice dog owners who may not be interested in the science behind behavior. As SouthernBelleInUtah posted, Dr. Sophia Yin is a much better resource than Cesar Millan. Her website provides many, many free videos and articles demonstrating specific yet easy training techniques for just about everything canine.
I keep seeing statements like this in this forum (probably 6-8 in the last few weeks). I have read several of Cesar's books, a couple of McConnell's books (Other End of the Leash is great!), Fogle's book (The Dogs Mind), Fennell's book (Dog Listener), Horowitz's book (Inside of a Dog), along with a list of other minor authors (both good and bad) and have looked into several training methodologies. I volunteer at a local training club, and occasionally do foster and rehab work with my local shelter.
There are numerous really fine training books including as someone else mentioned any of Patricia McConnell's training guides, Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed, or any of Karen Pryor's Clicker books.
Cesar's basic dog training books for a novice owner looking to develop a good recall and a couple of primary commands are a great resource for the novice owner who is looking for an easy read that will allow them to accomplish that level of training, they are not a great source (nor are they intended to be) for advanced training methods and techniques. FYI, he does include positive reinforcement as a technique in training in the books he has written that I have read.
Cesar is NOT the devil incarnate. His show is based on dealing mostly with out of control dogs that need rehab. His methods demonstrated on his shows are NOT geared toward the everyday pet, they are geared toward problem animals that are on the path to being destroyed without some type of intervention. I once read a lengthy hit piece on Cesar by a vet because Cesar said a dog needs to "migrate" and this guy focused in on how dogs don't migrate. Technically he was right, dogs "range" they don't migrate, so we have a take down based on the misapplication of a word by a man who's first language is not English. Really? That's the best you got, Dr.?
Cesar has via his tv show put a lot of really horrible information out into the public consciousness. He routinely pushes already damaged dogs over their tolerance threshold; this is not training, it is animal cruelty. I would maintain that the dogs he has "worked" with would have done better using counter-conditioning, shaping, or de-sensitization. Pet owners who don't know better take his methods as gospel- look at some of the comments on here. Any way you cut it, Cesar has done an incredible amount of harm to dogs both directly and indirectly.
And for the record, positive reinforcement only methodologies of training have their own limitations and problems - the dog gets a vote in what works for effective training methods.
Yes, the dog get to say what is positive in any given situation; that doesn't limit positive training, rather it expands it, making numerous things rewarding for the dog, e.g. being allowed to chase a squirrel, get a toy, sniff a fire hydrant, say hello to a friend, etc. A trainer or owner who knows their dog and how to read what their dog is telling them will adjust their training accordingly; this isn't limiting just smart training.
It is true that the term "positive" training is widely misused, but even if people use it to refer to non-force based training it is still a way better alternative than Cesar's nonsense.
This issue as I see it with R+ training is that first the trainer/owner has to know how how to use it and they have to have good timing, and they have to be consistent. The average pet owner doesn't have the skill or knowledge to be able to use R+ effectively, and as well, most don't have the desire or patience to learn, but this doesn't excuse the use of force.
R+ does work and is an extremely effective way of training. It is used in all manner of training from zoo animals, sea mammals, various R+ training camps using chickens and guinea pigs, horse training, dog sports, and the military, just to name a few examples.
Understanding dog behavior helps make for a better trainer; in fact I don't understand how anyone can effectively train a dog without understanding at least rudimentary dog behavior. Thus you see people who say "sit, sit, sit, SIT" in escalating volume to their dog and see people being pulled down the street by their dogs.
Understanding dog behavior helps make for a better trainer; in fact I don't understand how anyone can effectively train a dog without understanding at least rudimentary dog behavior. Thus you see people who say "sit, sit, sit, SIT" in escalating volume to their dog and see people being pulled down the street by their dogs.
Well said. Also, it is much harder to "do" than "know how". I have read The Other End of the Leash a few times and still find myself doing stuff like repeating "sit".
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Right now I control food, toys, walks, etc so I really am not worried if Chaos and Dazzle go out the door first as it is easier for me if they do or if they sleep on my bed.
