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Oh, lordy, now that I've stopped laughing, I can type again!
I think you've got enough handle on this that you guys will figure it out eventually. However, I will add this. My current two have hated the rain since day 1. We've gotten better about it, but they still hate the rain. IF it's raining when they need to go pee? They won't. If you go out for a run, which is fun? Well, I don't see all that much aversion there! Sure, and they won't hang around outside after the run, but going out - no problem!
The difference I've found is just like raising my children - or most of the crews I managed in my working life. If I wasn't willing to get out there - neither were they. I had to lead from in front. With these two, if it's raining and I need for them to pee, I have to go out and get wet. If I do that, we don't have much problem at all. I lead, they follow.
Sure, some dogs you can just throw outside and they will figure out they need to pee. And some you can't. I don't even bother with that method, as I think it is both antiquated and wrong-minded.
Now, if I were to step out into the rain, and the dog STILL refused to do the same? Oy, that could be a problem. But I know you'd have to get involved in some very specific and directed behavior modification if that were the case. Umbrellas, other suggestions - if they click somewhere - you'll pick it up, and worth a try or two.
Thinking about it - umbrellas. If you go out, and the dog refuses to go with - get the umbrella and coax the dog out under the umbrella. That should be doable. And that positive result can be stretched into something more extensive - with patience, I think.
Thanks! I think he has a real fear or something when it comes to thunder and rain, I think. He goes to the bathroom with no issue when it's drizzling. But one of the Texas thunderboomers? It sends him literally shaking and running into our bathroom for safety. Unfortunately he's not going outside of the door. He LOVES walking the kids to the pickup van but when it's thundering/raining he doesn't do it. This is something he absolutely loves to do every day for the past six months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzie1213
My sister had a 95lb golden that was horribly afraid of thunderstorms. He was not so afraid when he was younger but got increasingly more afraid as he got older. Wouldn't even be in a room with a balloon because the possibility of it popping and making the "scary" loud noise, would literally shake. BIL originally got him and was going to be a hunting/retriever dog but never got around to the training for it. He got to the point he would run frantically and hide during rain or thunderstorms. It got to be pretty bad. They decided to desensitized him by playing storm noises on real low at first, increasing the volume over a month or two. Played it on low while at work too. It seemed to work. But never did get over his fear of balloons.
Wally's like that golden. Yesterday evening we could feel him shaking after a round of thunder (followed by heavy rain). Our previous golden didn't like thunder at all, but wasn't quite this bad. Then again our golden was never out in a field fending for himself who knows how long. It's like we need to address the phobia because otherwise he's pretty obedient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610
Okay, then use a leash, common sense in this instance must prevail somewhere or
continue to follow the dog leader, your choice.
bylpph
Thanks, I figured that out. This has nothing to do with being a "leader" and exercising leadership. I want to remove whatever negative association he has with rain and thunder. I want to modify the behavior and pulling him out (which is what would have to be done) will serve no real purpose. With this dog, negative associations can be long lasting and overall he is pretty compliant. I don't want him to associate me or my husband with resorting to physical force to overcome his issue with thunder and rain. As I've learned with human parenting, you have to use different methods according to the personality. The dog's personality doesn't react well to (perceived) physical force.
Whoever mentioned the pee-pads.....that might be a possibility till we work through this (which, as with everything requires patience lol). At least he'll know he has somewhere to relieve himself while we're at work
We had a dog like that. Thunder for days, he just held it for days. When it finally stopped he ran out and you would think he was never going to finish pooping.
As I've learned with human parenting, you have to use different methods according to the personality. The dog's personality doesn't react well to (perceived) physical force.
You aren't parenting a human - you own a dog! No wonder your dog is scared!
https://atlantahumane.org/avoiding-a.../#.Wr1XUNPwau4 A leader does not wallow in the dog’s past—she plans for the future. A leader does not feel sorry for the dog, he builds confidence in the dog with training and guidance. A leader is firm but fair, prevents bad behaviors and sets the dog up to succeed, praises and rewards more than she criticizes or punishes, and knows that dogs are not humans in little fur coats. A leader refuses to make excuses for the dog.
Be a leader; your dog will thank you for it. It is truly the most humane act.
Yesterday, our dog Wally, refused to take his morning potty break since it was raining and previously it was thundering.
Obviously this can't go on each and every time that it rains and/or thunders. So, your help, please! He didn't want to go out in the evening either but was barely coaxed out by offering a new peanut butter flavored cookie that he hadn't tried before.
I have a noise-phobic border collie.
There are a couple of things you can try, but because thunder storms are random and unpredictable it can be difficult to counter-condition the fear. IOW it may never get better and may get worse.
Dogs are sensitive to the changes in barometric pressure that precede a storm. They can also be as afraid of the lightning as of the thunder. Both the drop in barometric pressure and the lightning serve as predictors of the storm/thunder.
When a storm is coming I do my best to take my dog out before the storm starts. If for whatever reason I need to take him out once it is already storming I put him on leash and go out with him. He has learned that as soon as he potties he gets to go back in the house.
You can try a thunder shirt. You need to follow the directions for using it carefully. They don't always work.
Melatonin- the supplement that people take for sleep- given 45-60 minutes before the storm begins can take the edge off the fear, but won't completely eliminate it.
You may wish to speak with your vet to see if a medication like xanax would be appropriate on an as-needed basis. That will probably be the most reliable way to manage the fear.
He might feel safer in his crate with a cover on it when it is storming- the cover will block out the lightning flashes. This may or may not work.
A white noise machine might help drown out the noise of the storm. If you choose to go this route you will need to be careful not to let the sound of the white noise become another predictor of the storm, so you will want to randomly turn it on and let it run for an hour or so so that Wally doesn't associate it with the storm.
There aren't any quick fixes for noise-phobic dogs, rather it is more trying different things to see what will make him most comfortable.
Just a bit of perspective: when a dog is in fear mode- in this case fear of storms- he is functioning with the instinctive side of his brain. He doesn't want to be fearful; he isn't choosing to be afraid any more than you can choose to be afraid of snakes or spiders or whatever your particular fear is. Fear isn't rational; it is primal and instinctive, and out of Wally's control. In some dogs, e.g. border collies, noise phobias have a genetic component, so in these cases it is highly unlikely that the dog will improve with time even with good management. In Wally's case, if you can make him comfortable when you know a storm is coming it will go a long way toward helping him feel safe and preventing this from getting worse.
Sorry, I'm not picking up a dog that's over 70 lbs and basically a dead weight. I lift weights, but no thanks. That leader thing goes but so far.
How OLD is this dog? Sounds like you just encourage the dog to be afraid. You are feeding his fear instead of just taking him out. Every time you say it OK or give a treat when hes afraid HE Thinks I Do have a reason to fear this.... TRAIN Yourself to Ignore him take him out Same time every day Even in the rain. Go with him As Soon as he starts to potty You Praise him .... Good Boy what a Good Potty... after a while take him out tell him to go potty As soon as hes Done give him the treat Spend time Playing with him take for walk, etc
How OLD is this dog? Sounds like you just encourage the dog to be afraid. You are feeding his fear instead of just taking him out. Every time you say it OK or give a treat when hes afraid HE Thinks I Do have a reason to fear this.... TRAIN Yourself to Ignore him take him out Same time every day Even in the rain. Go with him As Soon as he starts to potty You Praise him .... Good Boy what a Good Potty... after a while take him out tell him to go potty As soon as hes Done give him the treat Spend time Playing with him take for walk, etc
She's not encouraging the dog to be afraid, I don't know where you read that.
If I remember correctly, this is an older dog that is a rescue.
How OLD is this dog? Sounds like you just encourage the dog to be afraid. You are feeding his fear instead of just taking him out. Every time you say it OK or give a treat when hes afraid HE Thinks I Do have a reason to fear this.... TRAIN Yourself to Ignore him take him out Same time every day Even in the rain. Go with him As Soon as he starts to potty You Praise him .... Good Boy what a Good Potty... after a while take him out tell him to go potty As soon as hes Done give him the treat Spend time Playing with him take for walk, etc
Sounds like you just encourage the dog to be afraid. You are feeding his fear instead of just taking him out. Every time you say it OK or give a treat when hes afraid HE Thinks I Do have a reason to fear this....
This is incorrect.
Behavior can be reinforced. Fear is not a behavior. Fear can not be reinforced; it is perfectly acceptable to comfort a fearful dog. Doing so will not reinforce the fear; it simply isn't possible to reinforce fear which operates on a primal unconscious level.
Fear can be counter-conditioned (Pavlov) which will directly address and potentially resolve the fear issue.
Comforting a frightened dog will not reinforce the dog's fear anymore than comforting a frightened child will reinforce the child's fear.
How OLD is this dog? Sounds like you just encourage the dog to be afraid. You are feeding his fear instead of just taking him out. Every time you say it OK or give a treat when hes afraid HE Thinks I Do have a reason to fear this.... TRAIN Yourself to Ignore him take him out Same time every day Even in the rain. Go with him As Soon as he starts to potty You Praise him .... Good Boy what a Good Potty... after a while take him out tell him to go potty As soon as hes Done give him the treat Spend time Playing with him take for walk, etc
Uh, wha? Not sure how you inferred all of that but ok. Let me reiterate - he is afraid of thunder and heavy rain and will not go out of the house unless we physically move him. That means we'd have to pull him by either a collar or leash or pick him up. You say "take him out" as if he's just walking out with us but no, he's not. Otherwise is he compliant with our commands. I'm not sure what "ignore him" means in this context. And we do take him out the same time daily. We don't need potty training 101 here because this dog is 100% (make that 99% since he did it in the house this one time) trained and doesn't need any of that. We're addressing the root of the problem which is the fear of thunder and heavy rain. This dog is VERY trained to potty outside so obviously this fear overrides and that's what we're trying to address. We are not encouraging it. We're trying to get him to overcome it. Because of his fear, he'll hold it until he physically can't (which is what he did).
Digressing from your post but I still feel worth mentioning. I'm not going to pull this dog out physically to get him to go to the bathroom. That approach is 100% guaranteed to not get the results that we want. Ok, so I grab him by the collar and force him out of the house. Ok fine, I got him out. Do you think going to the bathroom is on his mind? No, it's "WTF, why are you handling me like that?" He will then display the body language of a dog that is very scared. Making him scared of us - is that going to make him go to the bathroom? This dog is seven years old and very timid. That's a fact. I'm no Dog Expert but I've been around him long enough to get an inkling of his personality. I don't care what anyone says, you have to take a dog's personality into account.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twelvepaw
This is incorrect.
Behavior can be reinforced. Fear is not a behavior. Fear can not be reinforced; it is perfectly acceptable to comfort a fearful dog. Doing so will not reinforce the fear; it simply isn't possible to reinforce fear which operates on a primal unconscious level.
Fear can be counter-conditioned (Pavlov) which will directly address and potentially resolve the fear issue.
Comforting a frightened dog will not reinforce the dog's fear anymore than comforting a frightened child will reinforce the child's fear.
Thank you!
And thanks for your advice (and thanks to everyone else too).
I know it's ton harder with a rescue dog.... but what about trying to convince her thunder is fun? I'm not fully caffeinated so bear with...
Aside from the potty issue what if every time there is some thunder give her a high value treat? Start like cuddled on the couch *THUNDER* follow with the encouraging singing voice and a piece of chicken, and expand from there.
My pup HATED the lawn mower, and using treats I was able to get him comfortable with it. I know it's easier when you raised them because they trust you. With our rescue dog... I can hardly figure out how to train him because his reactions are so odd.
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