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This isn't really new information but more support for what has already been shown. I did the research with my older dog when I got him as a puppy 7 years ago and decided not to neuter him until he was at least 2-3 years old. My current b*tch will not be spayed. Having had a dog with spay incontinence, that alone is reason enough for me not to do it again. But more concerning was the effects on growth, not maturing mentally from the puppy stage, increased aggression, anxiety issues, etc. Of course, most people are not responsible enough to manage an intact dog and should alter them to prevent horrid accidental breeding of poor quality dogs.
So how did you convince the breeder to allow you to neuter later?
Spaying and neutering is also linked to many health issues. My cattle dog isn't neutered and I won't be neutering her. No accidental litters. I would prefer not to neuter my GSD until 2 when her bones have done more growing but the breeder won't agree and I will abide by the contract.
So how did you convince the breeder to allow you to neuter later?
Spaying and neutering is also linked to many health issues. My cattle dog isn't neutered and I won't be neutering her. No accidental litters. I would prefer not to neuter my GSD until 2 when her bones have done more growing but the breeder won't agree and I will abide by the contract.
I agree that most people should neuter but I'm concerned about the impact of neutering on certain breeds already prone to joint diseases.
With my last dog, it was in the contract and I could not register him until he was neutered. I had him ready to attend his first competition in Novice Obedience by 8 months old but I needed him to be registered to show him. I certainly was not going to neuter him before a year old. She was very reluctant to make an exception and said in all her years of breeding, she never had, but I got two people, including a trainer at the obedience club to give me a reference. She finally relented and said I better not make her regret it and she insisted I send her the money and SHE would send in the paperwork to make sure it was limited registration. So I was able to compete with him at 8 months and he quickly got his title. She is a Breeder of Merit so all his titles reflect positively on her. When I ultimately got him neutered a couple years later, I sent her a copy of the vet record. With my current dog, I bought her as a show dog prospect so there is no spay requirement in the contract. The only thing my breeder asked, on good faith, was that I not breed her without their blessing and mentorship. I don't know much about breeding, bloodlines, etc., so I am thrilled to let them make those decisions, but I'm not legally bound by that. I don't know if I'll ever breed her but it would be a ways down the road. First, she'd have to get her championship title in the conformation rings and pass all her health clearances. Then I'd send her off for the whole process and get her back after the pups have gone home. But regardless, I'm not spaying her for health reasons and I want her to be the correct size and have solid bone and good temperament.
With my last dog, it was in the contract and I could not register him until he was neutered. I had him ready to attend his first competition in Novice Obedience by 8 months old but I needed him to be registered to show him. I certainly was not going to neuter him before a year old. She was very reluctant to make an exception and said in all her years of breeding, she never had, but I got two people, including a trainer at the obedience club to give me a reference. She finally relented and said I better not make her regret it and she insisted I send her the money and SHE would send in the paperwork to make sure it was limited registration. So I was able to compete with him at 8 months and he quickly got his title. She is a Breeder of Merit so all his titles reflect positively on her. When I ultimately got him neutered a couple years later, I sent her a copy of the vet record. With my current dog, I bought her as a show dog prospect so there is no spay requirement in the contract. The only thing my breeder asked, on good faith, was that I not breed her without their blessing and mentorship. I don't know much about breeding, bloodlines, etc., so I am thrilled to let them make those decisions, but I'm not legally bound by that. I don't know if I'll ever breed her but it would be a ways down the road. First, she'd have to get her championship title in the conformation rings and pass all her health clearances. Then I'd send her off for the whole process and get her back after the pups have gone home. But regardless, I'm not spaying her for health reasons and I want her to be the correct size and have solid bone and good temperament.
I'm wondering if I can get my vet to talk her out of requiring me to spay at 6 months. I absolutely wouldn't just break the contract. The registration is limited contingent on spaying by 6 months which I will do if I have to but I don't approve of it at all. On the other hand, I know what a dilemma it is for a breeder. Registration means nothing to me as I am not going to show and I'm not going to breed her. Her health is my concern and there are just too many issues large dogs have with their bones. I am still counting a lot on the fact that the dog is from healthier European work lines as opposed to show lines.
If you're not breeding then neutering shouldn't even be a question.
WHEN it is best to happen however seems in opposition to most rescue programs.
(too many are neutered far too young however well intended)
But as to aggression...
Too many other variables like training and socialization come into play to conclude too much
but my observation is that having an imbalance of intact and neutered dogs together is the main issue.
My morning dogpark group has a total of about 30 neutered dogs that show up regularly
(5-15 at any one time) and with rare exception all get along very very well together.
Those exceptions are almost always about an unaltered dog being present.
Fifty years ago when almost NONE of the neighborhood pets were neutered behavior seemed easier.
Or I'm just remembering it that way?
"By using large a sample of dogs than any used previously to examine behavior in dogs, we found
significant correlations between neutering dogs and increases in aggression, fear and anxiety, and
excitability, regardless of the age at which the dog was neutered. There were also significant
correlations between neutering and decreases in trainability and responsiveness to cues. The other
three behavioral categories examined (miscellaneous behavior problems, attachment and attention seeking
behavior, and separation-related behavior) showed some association with neutering, but
these differed more substantially depending on the age at which the dog was neutered. The overall
trend seen in all these behavioral data was that the earlier the dog was neutered, the more negative
the effect on the behavior. "
While I support mandatory spay/neuter laws, without exception, for some breeds, I think owners need to make a more educated decision when it comes to altering their dogs, and vets and trainers need to stop pushing it on everyone. Of course spay/neuters and yearly vaccinations are the vet's bread and butter. One of my first questions for a prospective vet is asking their stance on spay/neuter, and if they recommend yearly vaccinatons.
If you're not breeding then neutering shouldn't even be a question.
WHEN it is best to happen however seems in opposition to most rescue programs.
(too many are neutered far too young however well intended)
But as to aggression...
Too many other variables like training and socialization come into play to conclude too much
but my observation is that having an imbalance of intact and neutered dogs together is the main issue.
My morning dogpark group has a total of about 30 neutered dogs that show up regularly
(5-15 at any one time) and with rare exception all get along very very well together.
Those exceptions are almost always about an unaltered dog being present.
Fifty years ago when almost NONE of the neighborhood pets were neutered behavior seemed easier.
Or I'm just remembering it that way?
Fifty years ago today, at least in the suburban neighborhood I grew up in, the moms were mostly home during the day, the kids (when not in school) did a lot of playing outside and so did the dogs. There was often one dog who was not dog-friendly and sometimes not people-friendly either, but I think it had less to do with being intact or spayed/neutered than it did with their breed and pedigree and training (or lack of it).
I do remember one of our intact male dogs crossing the highway once or twice in search of a female in heat. (but the intact male dog we had later never roamed that far; and when he was in his prime, the leash law started being enforced and we fenced off part of the yard so he could have an area to trot around in)
Some breeders won't allow (via contract) there dogs to he s/n until fully mature. Earlier is worse for health.
A lot of behavior depends on the dogs genetics and some environmental factors, but altering a dog could cause issues. It depends on source of aggression (and other temperament problems, its more than aggression like fear, nervousness).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
If you're not breeding then neutering shouldn't even be a question.
WHEN it is best to happen however seems in opposition to most rescue programs.
(too many are neutered far too young however well intended)
But as to aggression...
Too many other variables like training and socialization come into play to conclude too much
but my observation is that having an imbalance of intact and neutered dogs together is the main issue.
My morning dogpark group has a total of about 30 neutered dogs that show up regularly
(5-15 at any one time) and with rare exception all get along very very well together.
Those exceptions are almost always about an unaltered dog being present.
Fifty years ago when almost NONE of the neighborhood pets were neutered behavior seemed easier.
Or I'm just remembering it that way?
If you're not breeding then neutering shouldn't even be a question.
. . .
Quote:
Why would you say that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
Why would I say what (or which)?
My guess would be the bolded part.
Personally, I know WHY S/N became a big deal. But it's just been overdone to the extreme. I support keeping the numbers of strays and accidental dogs down, and have for more than 50 years. But enough is enough, and too much is too much.
I have long said neutering a male had negative personality affects. Spaying a female does not seem to have a similar impact. I found it nice to see that scientific studies validated my real life observations. And actually carried it a bit farther.
And you don't need every dog s/n to keep the population down. What you do need is careful owners.
My dogs, for the past few decades, have been rescues, and therefore s/n. I don't know what I will do next time. But I tend to think I won't be looking for rescues any more. Nor dealing with a breeder who insists on s/n in a contract. But that is crystal-balling, and who knows for sure what I will do when the time comes.
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