Please just talk to the next person who talk about breeding their pets... (boxers, biting)
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Oh I agree with you there Shelbygirl. That's when an outside run is best for Mom and pups and sanitation, still has to be cleaned several times a day but at least you save on a stinky garage and papertowels...lol Sounds like you did a great job tho when you did breed
Moderator cut: advertising Besides our 6 kids our Mals are our life. And I think people who want a litter of pups so the kids can get a "life lesson" should be spayed and neutered themselves...what a dumba$$ reason to breed any dog. Some people are idiots.
Last edited by leorah; 01-30-2009 at 06:33 PM..
Reason: advertising
For those who may not know me well, as I noticed there are a few posters who are breeders commenting here, which is fine...but I still don't support breeding. Just b/c an animal has AKC papers doesn't mean anything to me. As long as you are paying the AKC money...they don't care. They fought against our state trying to pass minimal regulations of breeding facilities. Why would the AKC be against improving the basic care such as housing, exercise and feedings? I've read their standards and they are still very minimal care standards IMHO. You need to visit my state and visit these licensed facilities and see what I am talking about. I believe only a handful of people should be allowed to breed (it pains me to type this)...it seems like everyone feels they are qualified to breed just b/c they are licensed by the AKC.
I'm a rescue person and SPAY and NEUTER advocate through and through.
FYI, not sure if you are aware, you can not post your website in a post. If anyone wants to see you can DM them or post it on your personal page. (This is being said in a kind voice.)
Have you ever looked on Craigslist and all the dogs and puppies listed? I so wish something could be done to stop the BYB. I noticed a couple websites listed here, but I didn't read anything about what tests, clearances and results done on the dam and sire. I know they can vary from breed to breed, but I felt very satisfied w/ my breeder's check off list when I bought my English Lab and Newfoundland.
A list similar to this should be mandatory of a reputable breeder. I've posted it before, but it's worth repeating.
Here's a checklist for you that separates reputable from ignorance.
____1) Where did you find out about this breeder? Responsible breeders usually have a waiting list of puppy buyers. They usually don't find it necessary to advertise in newspapers or with a sign out in the front yard.
____2) Do both parents (the sire and dam) have a hip clearance from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals), PennHip or Wind-Morgan? Ask to see the certificates. "My vet okayed the x-ray" is not a valid clearance. Prelims can be done before two years, but some dogs can fail to get final OFA clearance at two years, even if they passed before.
____3) Do both parents have current eye clearances from an Opthomologist or CERF certificate (Canine Eye Registry)? This must be re-done every year. Ask to see the certificates.
____4) Do either parent have other clearances, Elbow, Heart, and Thyroid? These are some of the other problems labradors can have and some breeders are checking for.
____5) Are both parents at least 2 years old? Final hip clearances cannot be obtained before that age. Prelims can be done before two years, but some dogs can fail to get final OFA clearance at two years, even if they passed before.
____6) How often is the dam bred? If it is every heat cycle, THIS IS TOO OFTEN, and may indicate that profit is the primary motive for the breeding.
____7)Do all four grandparents, siblings of the parents and any other puppies that they may have produced have these clearances? A responsible breeder will keep track of these statistics and honestly discuss any problems that have occurred in the lines and what has been done to prevent them from reoccurring.
____8) Is the breeder willing to provide you with references and telephone numbers of other people who have purchased puppies from them?
____9) Will the puppy have a limited registration with a mandatory spay/neuter contract? A breeder who cares enough about the breed to insist on these is likely to be a responsible breeder.
____10) On what basis was the sire chosen? If the answer is "because he lives right down the street" or "because he is really sweet", it may be that sufficient thought was not put into the breeding.
____11) WILL THE BREEDER TAKE THE DOG BACK AT ANY TIME, FOR ANY REASON, IF YOU CANNOT KEEP IT?! This is the hallmark of responsible breeding (and the quickest way to make rescue obsolete).
____12) Is there a written guarantee against congenital health or temperament problems, that does not require you to return your puppy or euthanize it?
____13) Will the breeder be available to answer any question you might have for the life of the dog? Is this someone you would feel comfortable asking any type of question?
____14) Is the breeder knowledgeable about the breed? Is he or she involved in competition with their dogs (field, obedience, or confirmation)?
____15) Are there a majority of titled dogs (the initials: CH, OTCH, CD, JH, WC... before or after the names) in the first two generations? The term champion lines means nothing if those titles are back three or more generations or there is only one or two in the whole pedigree.
____16) Are the puppy's sire and dam available for you to meet? If the sire is unavailable can you call his owners or people who have his puppies to ask about temperament or health problems? You should also be provided with pictures or videos.
____17) Have the puppies been raised in the home - not in a kennel, barn or the back yard?
____18) Is the breeder knowledgeable about raising puppies, critical neonatal periods, proper socialization techniques? Puppies that are raised without high exposure to gentle handling, human contact and a wide variety of noises and experiences OR are removed from their dam or litter mates before at least 7 weeks, may exhibit a wide variety of behavioral problems!
____19) Does the breeder provide you with a 3-5 generation pedigree, a contract to sign, copies of all clearances and guarantee, health records and material to help you with feeding, training and housebreaking?
____20) Have the puppies temperaments been evaluated and can the breeder guide you to the puppy that will best suite your lifestyle? A very shy puppy will not do well in a noisy household with small children, just as a very dominant puppy won't flourish in a sedate, senior citizen household. A caring breeder will know the puppies and be able to show you how to test them so that good matches can be made.
____21) Do the puppies seem healthy, with no discharge from eyes or nose, no loose stools, no foul smelling ears? Are their coats soft, full and clean? Do they have plenty of energy when awake yet calm down easily when gently stroked?
____22) Do the puppies have their first shots and have they been wormed & vet checked by the time they go to your home?
____23) Does the breeder have only 1 or at most 2 breeds of dogs and only 1 or 2 litters at a time? If there are many breeds of dogs there, the chances are the breeder cannot devote the time it takes to become really knowledgeable about the breed and if there is more than one litter at a time it is very difficult to give the puppies the attention they need and may indicate that the primary purpose for breeding is profit, rather than a sincere desire to improve the breed.
____24) Does the breeder belong to A Club and/or a local All-Breed Club.
____25) Do you feel comfortable with this person, after all you are entering into a decade long relationship? Are you feeling intimidated or pressured? If so, keep looking!
FYI, not sure if you are aware, you can not post your website in a post.
Oh I didn't know that either...sorry. I removed mine from my post.
I do agree that there should be very high standards for breeding. Unless you have visited a place to see the care of their animals you can't assume all breeders are not qualified. I know there are definitly more out there that are not qualified compared to those that are.
The AKC is simply a registry for purebred dogs that's it. They are more political now than ever and care more about money than the breed IMO. I agree that if a purebred dog who is not of the highest breeding quality should be spay/neutered as well.
I just want you guys to know that I wasn't posting in anger. I know tone is hard to detect via on-line. Just trying to clarify how I feel. Yes, obviously I have ill feelings towards the AKC. I had no idea just how political they are. We're giong to face them again this session when we try to reintroduce the Oklahoma Pet Quality Assurance Act.
Sorry, I didn't know that either.Moderator cut: advertising I appreciate your checklist on finding a reputable breeder, I have seen this many times & completely agree with everything on it.
I went over the checklist myself and answered all the questions.
We never breed a female until after her 2nd heat cycle. We never advertise in the paper, we don't have to, we always have a waiting list. We do ALL genetic testing on the parents prior to breeding, which is very
expensive. We have a health guarantee, and will always take a puppy back if the buyer has any difficulty at all.......Our dogs are sold on a limited registration....and on & on.....
However, there are many BYB who do not follow any of these standards & that is what I as everyone on here has a problem with.
Last edited by leorah; 01-30-2009 at 06:13 PM..
Reason: advertising
Have you ever looked on Craigslist and all the dogs and puppies listed? I so wish something could be done to stop the BYB. I noticed a couple websites listed here, but I didn't read anything about what tests, clearances and results done on the dam and sire. I know they can vary from breed to breed, but I felt very satisfied w/ my breeder's check off list when I bought my English Lab and Newfoundland.
A list similar to this should be mandatory of a reputable breeder. I've posted it before, but it's worth repeating.
Here's a checklist for you that separates reputable from ignorance.
____1) Where did you find out about this breeder? Responsible breeders usually have a waiting list of puppy buyers. They usually don't find it necessary to advertise in newspapers or with a sign out in the front yard.
____2) Do both parents (the sire and dam) have a hip clearance from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals), PennHip or Wind-Morgan? Ask to see the certificates. "My vet okayed the x-ray" is not a valid clearance. Prelims can be done before two years, but some dogs can fail to get final OFA clearance at two years, even if they passed before.
____3) Do both parents have current eye clearances from an Opthomologist or CERF certificate (Canine Eye Registry)? This must be re-done every year. Ask to see the certificates.
____4) Do either parent have other clearances, Elbow, Heart, and Thyroid? These are some of the other problems labradors can have and some breeders are checking for.
____5) Are both parents at least 2 years old? Final hip clearances cannot be obtained before that age. Prelims can be done before two years, but some dogs can fail to get final OFA clearance at two years, even if they passed before.
____6) How often is the dam bred? If it is every heat cycle, THIS IS TOO OFTEN, and may indicate that profit is the primary motive for the breeding.
____7)Do all four grandparents, siblings of the parents and any other puppies that they may have produced have these clearances? A responsible breeder will keep track of these statistics and honestly discuss any problems that have occurred in the lines and what has been done to prevent them from reoccurring.
____8) Is the breeder willing to provide you with references and telephone numbers of other people who have purchased puppies from them?
____9) Will the puppy have a limited registration with a mandatory spay/neuter contract? A breeder who cares enough about the breed to insist on these is likely to be a responsible breeder.
____10) On what basis was the sire chosen? If the answer is "because he lives right down the street" or "because he is really sweet", it may be that sufficient thought was not put into the breeding.
____11) WILL THE BREEDER TAKE THE DOG BACK AT ANY TIME, FOR ANY REASON, IF YOU CANNOT KEEP IT?! This is the hallmark of responsible breeding (and the quickest way to make rescue obsolete).
____12) Is there a written guarantee against congenital health or temperament problems, that does not require you to return your puppy or euthanize it?
____13) Will the breeder be available to answer any question you might have for the life of the dog? Is this someone you would feel comfortable asking any type of question?
____14) Is the breeder knowledgeable about the breed? Is he or she involved in competition with their dogs (field, obedience, or confirmation)?
____15) Are there a majority of titled dogs (the initials: CH, OTCH, CD, JH, WC... before or after the names) in the first two generations? The term champion lines means nothing if those titles are back three or more generations or there is only one or two in the whole pedigree.
____16) Are the puppy's sire and dam available for you to meet? If the sire is unavailable can you call his owners or people who have his puppies to ask about temperament or health problems? You should also be provided with pictures or videos.
____17) Have the puppies been raised in the home - not in a kennel, barn or the back yard?
____18) Is the breeder knowledgeable about raising puppies, critical neonatal periods, proper socialization techniques? Puppies that are raised without high exposure to gentle handling, human contact and a wide variety of noises and experiences OR are removed from their dam or litter mates before at least 7 weeks, may exhibit a wide variety of behavioral problems!
____19) Does the breeder provide you with a 3-5 generation pedigree, a contract to sign, copies of all clearances and guarantee, health records and material to help you with feeding, training and housebreaking?
____20) Have the puppies temperaments been evaluated and can the breeder guide you to the puppy that will best suite your lifestyle? A very shy puppy will not do well in a noisy household with small children, just as a very dominant puppy won't flourish in a sedate, senior citizen household. A caring breeder will know the puppies and be able to show you how to test them so that good matches can be made.
____21) Do the puppies seem healthy, with no discharge from eyes or nose, no loose stools, no foul smelling ears? Are their coats soft, full and clean? Do they have plenty of energy when awake yet calm down easily when gently stroked?
____22) Do the puppies have their first shots and have they been wormed & vet checked by the time they go to your home?
____23) Does the breeder have only 1 or at most 2 breeds of dogs and only 1 or 2 litters at a time? If there are many breeds of dogs there, the chances are the breeder cannot devote the time it takes to become really knowledgeable about the breed and if there is more than one litter at a time it is very difficult to give the puppies the attention they need and may indicate that the primary purpose for breeding is profit, rather than a sincere desire to improve the breed.
____24) Does the breeder belong to A Club and/or a local All-Breed Club.
____25) Do you feel comfortable with this person, after all you are entering into a decade long relationship? Are you feeling intimidated or pressured? If so, keep looking!
A very good and complete list! EACH AND EVERY point should be taken seriously. I love #25!
I've been told to f*** off by plenty of people for speaking up about this...it doesn't stop me. People are ridiculous, the shelters are FULL. At the flea markets out here, there are always at least a few people walking around with chihuahua puppies in cardboard boxes, selling them to whoever gives them the best offer. Disgusting. People think they're little toys, and once they realize it takes work to train them, they stick them in the yard, where they often find ways to escape. My Bf has a beautiful white boxer (not deaf or blind, though that assumption was probably why she was abandoned as a puppy) and so many idiots have approached wanting to mate their males with her...NO way! If he wanted to breed her (which he doesn't) he'd go to a real breeder, not just let her take up with any 'ole dog on the street...people are nuts! My uncle recently studded out his Westie, Max, (his brother's family had just put down their old dalmation girl and he wanted to give them a pup since they love Max so much) and he needed to provide all kinds of paperwork (AKC, medical records, etc.) for them to okay it. (Though it kind of bummed me out because I had just taken in an abandoned JRT/Chi puppy, and was trying to find him a home...they had already set their hearts on one of Max's offspring, so they didn't even give my little guy a chance. I understand and all, Max IS a really great dog, but so is Guinness...he was potty trained in record time and has the sweetest disposition...I just think if they'd been open to meeting him, they would have taken him in or possible even taken BOTH, since Guinness is highly sociable with other animals...) Good breeders are so important, I in no way want to diminish the efforts of all of you out there who are doing things responsibly...you are bettering the breeds and making sure these pups have everything they need to start their lives out right,(including responsible parents, spay/neuter, a good nutritional foundation, and plenty of love)...but these BYB's who have the idea that they somehow have the "right" to do what they're doing just because the animals are "theirs" is an outrage. Many of my friends and I agree there should be laws against backyard breeding, but enforcing them will be extremely difficult, if not impossible. There should be outrageous fines that far surpass any profits they would have seen, making the idea less appealing in general.
I personally love #23. Very indicative of those horrible puppy mills.
However#15 is only if you bow down to the AKC. Our dogs no matter how perfect have never won a AKC title simply because they are too big. It's awful because while the AKC acknowledges that "there is a natural range in size with the breed" if you have a "perfect standard" next to a "perfect giant" the standard will win everytime. Yet the breed is suppose to be judged solely on it's "freighting ability". As one can see I have serious issues with the AKC and only use them as a registry and nothing more.
We "show" our dogs in weight pulling competitions and let them win their "titles" that way.
Have you ever looked on Craigslist and all the dogs and puppies listed? I so wish something could be done to stop the BYB. I noticed a couple websites listed here, but I didn't read anything about what tests, clearances and results done on the dam and sire. I know they can vary from breed to breed, but I felt very satisfied w/ my breeder's check off list when I bought my English Lab and Newfoundland.
A list similar to this should be mandatory of a reputable breeder. I've posted it before, but it's worth repeating.
Here's a checklist for you that separates reputable from ignorance.
____1) Where did you find out about this breeder? Responsible breeders usually have a waiting list of puppy buyers. They usually don't find it necessary to advertise in newspapers or with a sign out in the front yard.
____2) Do both parents (the sire and dam) have a hip clearance from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals), PennHip or Wind-Morgan? Ask to see the certificates. "My vet okayed the x-ray" is not a valid clearance. Prelims can be done before two years, but some dogs can fail to get final OFA clearance at two years, even if they passed before.
____3) Do both parents have current eye clearances from an Opthomologist or CERF certificate (Canine Eye Registry)? This must be re-done every year. Ask to see the certificates.
____4) Do either parent have other clearances, Elbow, Heart, and Thyroid? These are some of the other problems labradors can have and some breeders are checking for.
____5) Are both parents at least 2 years old? Final hip clearances cannot be obtained before that age. Prelims can be done before two years, but some dogs can fail to get final OFA clearance at two years, even if they passed before.
____6) How often is the dam bred? If it is every heat cycle, THIS IS TOO OFTEN, and may indicate that profit is the primary motive for the breeding.
____7)Do all four grandparents, siblings of the parents and any other puppies that they may have produced have these clearances? A responsible breeder will keep track of these statistics and honestly discuss any problems that have occurred in the lines and what has been done to prevent them from reoccurring.
____8) Is the breeder willing to provide you with references and telephone numbers of other people who have purchased puppies from them?
____9) Will the puppy have a limited registration with a mandatory spay/neuter contract? A breeder who cares enough about the breed to insist on these is likely to be a responsible breeder.
____10) On what basis was the sire chosen? If the answer is "because he lives right down the street" or "because he is really sweet", it may be that sufficient thought was not put into the breeding.
____11) WILL THE BREEDER TAKE THE DOG BACK AT ANY TIME, FOR ANY REASON, IF YOU CANNOT KEEP IT?! This is the hallmark of responsible breeding (and the quickest way to make rescue obsolete).
____12) Is there a written guarantee against congenital health or temperament problems, that does not require you to return your puppy or euthanize it?
____13) Will the breeder be available to answer any question you might have for the life of the dog? Is this someone you would feel comfortable asking any type of question?
____14) Is the breeder knowledgeable about the breed? Is he or she involved in competition with their dogs (field, obedience, or confirmation)?
____15) Are there a majority of titled dogs (the initials: CH, OTCH, CD, JH, WC... before or after the names) in the first two generations? The term champion lines means nothing if those titles are back three or more generations or there is only one or two in the whole pedigree.
____16) Are the puppy's sire and dam available for you to meet? If the sire is unavailable can you call his owners or people who have his puppies to ask about temperament or health problems? You should also be provided with pictures or videos.
____17) Have the puppies been raised in the home - not in a kennel, barn or the back yard?
____18) Is the breeder knowledgeable about raising puppies, critical neonatal periods, proper socialization techniques? Puppies that are raised without high exposure to gentle handling, human contact and a wide variety of noises and experiences OR are removed from their dam or litter mates before at least 7 weeks, may exhibit a wide variety of behavioral problems!
____19) Does the breeder provide you with a 3-5 generation pedigree, a contract to sign, copies of all clearances and guarantee, health records and material to help you with feeding, training and housebreaking?
____20) Have the puppies temperaments been evaluated and can the breeder guide you to the puppy that will best suite your lifestyle? A very shy puppy will not do well in a noisy household with small children, just as a very dominant puppy won't flourish in a sedate, senior citizen household. A caring breeder will know the puppies and be able to show you how to test them so that good matches can be made.
____21) Do the puppies seem healthy, with no discharge from eyes or nose, no loose stools, no foul smelling ears? Are their coats soft, full and clean? Do they have plenty of energy when awake yet calm down easily when gently stroked?
____22) Do the puppies have their first shots and have they been wormed & vet checked by the time they go to your home?
____23) Does the breeder have only 1 or at most 2 breeds of dogs and only 1 or 2 litters at a time? If there are many breeds of dogs there, the chances are the breeder cannot devote the time it takes to become really knowledgeable about the breed and if there is more than one litter at a time it is very difficult to give the puppies the attention they need and may indicate that the primary purpose for breeding is profit, rather than a sincere desire to improve the breed.
____24) Does the breeder belong to A Club and/or a local All-Breed Club.
____25) Do you feel comfortable with this person, after all you are entering into a decade long relationship? Are you feeling intimidated or pressured? If so, keep looking!
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