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Obamacare has become such a hot button issue. Too bad 99% of the people arguing for or against don't know jack about it or have any meaningful (factual) statistics to back up their views.
I used to be an actuary for a large medical insurance firm. I have my Masters in Econ. I know a bit about the inner workings of insurance firms... and how they were scared to death about Obamacare being passed.
I want any detractors of Obamacare to consider my last sentence, which is undoubtedly fact. WHY do you think insurance firms were all deadset against Obamacare, hmm?
The answer is because they've lost their ability to keep raising their premiums by insane amounts every year. With Obamacare, it's kept insurance providers in check, because if they raise rates too much, they'll lose their customers to a plan on one of the exchanges. It's that simple.
People are complaining that their premiums went up under Obamacare... Yes, they probably did. Don't forget to think about the fact that your premiums were going to go up ANYWAY, and probably by an even larger degree, before the implementation of Obamacare.
I worked for that insurance firm for about 6 years... long enough to develop an incredible distaste and loathing for insurance firms in their pursuit of profit at the expense of human life. Healthcare is one of those things that should NOT be a private sector enterprise. It isn't like buying a car, where we have choices as to what kind of car we want, and what features we want it to have, etc. Healthcare, at it's simplest, is the same for everyone. We ALL want access to it, because when we need it, that's it. We need it. It's not an economic "want", it's an economic need. As such, profit needs to take a backseat to humanity. People shouldn't lose their coverage or be denied coverage because of a preexisting condition. I've seen that a lot btw... People who paid their premiums religiously, but their insurer dropped them the second they find out that a person has come down with a terminal illness that will be expensive to treat.
With Obamacare, those people now have coverage, which the "free" market denied them before.
The saddest thing about this topic is how many people have had the wool pulled over their eyes. Healthcare is not about what political affiliation you are, though some can only think in those terms. In the end, it boils down to what you value more... Do you think the corporation should trump the individual in matters of their own health? Or do you think that we should all have a fair shake at living the healthiest life we can?
And just to make one last point... for the love of God, if you're going to make a point, back it up with FACTS from a REPUTABLE source. Not a biased one. Some of the claims in here are utterly ridiculous.
Very well. Refer back to my original post for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
And just to make one last point... for the love of God, if you're going to make a point, back it up with FACTS from a REPUTABLE source. Not a biased one. Some of the claims in here are utterly ridiculous.
Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I don't consider a man who is a noted conspiracy theorist, thinks we faked the moon landings, and thinks our government was behind the 9/11 attacks is a reputable source.
Not to mention, your link to his page is referencing the rising stock prices of health care companies since 2009 (which was at the bottom of the market due to the recession) which is somehow supposed to prove a point you are trying (and failing miserably) to make?
Newsflash: the stock market has been on a tear since Obama took office.
However, I do want to thank you for your post. There was lingering doubt as to why you could possibly have such an abysmal reputation for your posts, but there's none now. Let me know when the New World Order starts.
Obama got more money from the insurance industry than ANYONE ELSE, and you claim they were "afraid".. hahaha.... oooh what a tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I don't consider a man who is a noted conspiracy theorist, thinks we faked the moon landings, and thinks our government was behind the 9/11 attacks is a reputable source.
Not to mention, your link to his page is referencing the rising stock prices of health care companies since 2009 (which was at the bottom of the market due to the recession) which is somehow supposed to prove a point you are trying (and failing miserably) to make?
Rising stock prices, arent an indication that people believe its going to fail or afraid of the industry . Now you are posting proof your own posting was bs.. hahaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
Newsflash: the stock market has been on a tear since Obama took office.
Ahh yeah, thanks to QE1, 2 etc and a lingering bond market with low yields..
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
However, I do want to thank you for your post. There was lingering doubt as to why you could possibly have such an abysmal reputation for your posts, but there's none now. Let me know when the New World Order starts.
Only in your mind considering you havent disputed A DAM THING but what to pretend you did.
If you get off on people giving you rep points for being wrong, go for it..
The point he was making was that Alex Jones isn't a credible source and neither is a contemporary like Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter. They are not the most credible of sources because they talk about voodoo far-right and ultra-conservative views.
The point he was making was that Alex Jones isn't a credible source and neither is a contemporary like Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter. They are not the most credible of sources because they talk about voodoo far-right and ultra-conservative views.
Even Huffington POS acknowledged the EXACT same thing..
You dont give money to people you are afraid of, you give them to their opponents..
To claim the insurance company was afraid of ACA but gave Obama record sums of money is laughable..
Even Huffington POS acknowledged the EXACT same thing..
You dont give money to people you are afraid of, you give them to their opponents..
To claim the insurance company was afraid of ACA but gave Obama record sums of money is laughable..
Yes, you do. That's basic common sense, just ask Microsoft why.
Recent anti-fracking bill in California that failed 16-16 with 8 abstentions. Of 24 that voted no or abstained, 9 were Democrats. 8 of the 9 received pretty substantial amounts of oil PAC money. You'd have to be criminally stupid if you're the oil industry not to give money to the Democrats here in California.
Obamacare has become such a hot button issue. Too bad 99% of the people arguing for or against don't know jack about it or have any meaningful (factual) statistics to back up their views.
That includes you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
I used to be an actuary for a large medical insurance firm.
I believe you probably drove by such a place on your way to work at Wal-Mart as a stock-clerk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
I have my Masters in Econ.
University of City-Data?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
I know a bit about the inner workings of insurance firms...
Yes, everyone has become an "expert" as of late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
If you wish to refute any of it, then do so, if you're able.
Okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
...and how they were scared to death about Obamacare being passed.
I want any detractors of Obamacare to consider my last sentence, which is undoubtedly fact.
Why is it "undoubtedly fact?"
Did you toss out bogus credentials to set up this fallacy?
Appeal to Authority You appeal to authority if you back up your reasoning by saying that it is supported by what some authority says on the subject
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
WHY do you think insurance firms were all deadset against Obamacare, hmm?
Let's look at the facts.....
Lifetime & Annual Limits
The Affordable Care Act prohibits health plans from putting a lifetime dollar limit on most benefits you receive. The law also restricts and phases out the annual dollar limits a health plan can place on most of your benefits — and does away with these limits entirely in 2014.
What This Means for You
Before the health care law, many health plans set an annual limit — a dollar limit on their yearly spending for your covered benefits. Many plans also set a lifetime limit — a dollar limit on what they would spend for your covered benefits during the entire time you were enrolled in that plan. You were required to pay the cost of all care exceeding those limits.
Under the law, lifetime limits on most benefits are prohibited in any health plan or insurance policy issued or renewed on or after September 23, 2010.
The law restricts and phases out the annual dollar limits that all job-related plans, and individual health insurance plans issued after March 23, 2010, can put on most covered health benefits. Specifically, the law says that none of these plans can set an annual dollar limit lower than:
$750,000: for a plan year or policy year starting on or after September 23, 2010 but before September 23, 2011.
$1.25 million: for a plan year or policy year starting on or after September 23, 2011 but before September 23, 2012.
$2 million: for a plan year or policy year starting on or after September 23, 2012 but before January 1, 2014.
No annual dollar limits are allowed on most covered benefits beginning January 1, 2014.
Since you claim to be the Master of the Econoverse and Actuarial God, please tell us how much "unlimited" is.
Surely you can give a dollar figure for "unlimited." How much is it?
When you have finished that simple task, tell us how much does "unlimited" cost?
I'll make it easy for you... The Great Actuarial: How much money in premiums must be collected to pay for "unlimited?"
Why don't we apply that to housing?
The sale price of a house can be "unlimited" and then you can get a mortgage for "unlimited?"
How much is that?
Better yet, why don't we apply that to Auto Insurance and Homeowner's Insurance and Life Insurance.
Okay, so we have a life insurance policy, and the payout to the name beneficiaries upon death is "unlimited."
How much will the insurance company pay out?
What should the monthly premium be to cover the pay out of "unlimited?"
As an acclaimed actuarial, you should be able to crunch those numbers in your sleep.
As an actuarial, how do you reconcile the US Supreme Court's definition of insurance....
Insurance is a contract whereby for a stipulated consideration, one party undertakes to compensate the other for loss on a specific subject by specified perils.
...with "unlimited?"
Speaking of facts.....
Total Number of All U.S. Registered * Hospitals 5,754
Looks to me like like the American Hospital Association was more afraid than any of the insurance companies.
How much did cost the American Hospital Association to buy Obamacare?
Apparently $779 Million.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
The answer is because they've lost their ability to keep raising their premiums by insane amounts every year.
Let me get this straight: you claim to have "your Master in Econ" and your position is that the price of health plan coverage drives up the price of medical care.
Is that right?
According to you, it is the price of homeowner's insurance that determines the price of housing and the price of auto insurance that determines the price of autos.
You are, of course, wrong.
It is the price of medical care that drives up the price of health plan coverage.
The reason insurance companies raise their rates, is due to the fact that open-surgery costs $13,000 but the hospitals -- having a monopoly and illegally colluding to illegally fix prices -- charge $26,000 to $41,000.
Another reason insurance companies raise their rates is due to the fact that hospitals charge $55,000 for a appendectomy that probably only cost $2,800.
As Master of the Econoverse, you should know that the Hospital Model is the least effective, most inefficient means of healthcare delivery.
You should also know that while Sweden and Britain continue to use the Hospital Model -- and have very poor healthcare outcomes, the other Euro-States abandoned the Hospital Model for the Clinic Model in the 1970s.
The Clinic Model is highly efficient and extremely effective in the delivery of low cost medical care.
You should also know that in the 1990s, Western Euro-States adopted the Poli-Clinic Model used by the East Bloc --- you know....Capitalism....the two Corollaries are Diversify & Specialize.
It's not the fault of insurance companies that a monopoly insists upon using an inefficient antiquated system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
People are complaining that their premiums went up under Obamacare... Yes, they probably did. Don't forget to think about the fact that your premiums were going to go up ANYWAY, and probably by an even larger degree, before the implementation of Obamacare.
1] Technology up to 65%
2] Consumer Demand up to 36%
3] Expanding Health Benefits or Insuring more people up to 13%
4] Healthcare Price Inflation up to 19% (caused by Consumer Demand and insuring more people)
5] Administrative Costs up to 13% (caused by Technology, Consumer Demand and Regulations)
6] Aging/Elderly up to 7%
Source: United States Government General Accounting Office GAO-13-281 PPACA and the Long-Term Fiscal Outlook, January 2013 pp 31-36
The problem is your medical system, not your insurance system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MckinneyOwnr
I worked for that insurance firm for about 6 years... long enough to develop an incredible distaste and loathing for....
...scrubbing skid-marks out toilets?
Not impressed.....
Mircea
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