Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You don't get it. I'm beginning to think willfully so.
Once upon a time, a student like me COULD afford to go to a prestigious college. It was still a lot of work to balance classes and the jobs necessary to pay the tuition. But it could be done. That isn't possible today.
"Tough luck," is not an acceptable answer.
You don't get it - I'm beginning to think willfully so.
Just because a person may not be able to afford to go to a "prestigious college," nearly everyone can afford to go to at the very least a community college. A college degree is not some out of reach financial goal for the vast majority of Americans. However, some colleges are much more expensive than other colleges. If a person can't afford to go to an expensive college, then it is what it is. It's not WRONG that they can't afford it - it's just a fact that they can't afford it. Heck, there are all sorts of expensive things in life that I'd like to have but I can't afford.
A degree from a prestigious college isn't a basic human right. Neither is a college education, for that matter.
Sure, costs have risen. But public colleges are well within the financial means of most people.
What's NOT possible for most people to pay for without racking up significant debt is five (or more) years of college at an expensive college, while they're working 15 hours or less a week - if at all.
Here's a hint - if you're having to go into significant debt to get your college degree, you need to either work more (as in a paying job) or scale back on your hours or choose a different school. If you're not willing to do any of those things, then quit grousing about student loan debt.
I know plenty of young people (in and outside of my immediate family) who somehow manage to get a college education without taking out massive loans. Please don't act like it can't be done or like it's an unrealistic option.
I just think the reason millennials are unhappy is because generations above them had cheap college and fine careers. Now those same generations are telling them, yeah good for us, however, you need to get a job to pay your way through community college for a pipefitting certificate.
It's very different than even my generation where my parents didn't want any of us to work part time jobs because it would negatively affect our chances to get good grades and get into better schools, have better scholarships, etc.
You don't get it. I'm beginning to think willfully so.
Once upon a time, a student like me COULD afford to go to a prestigious college. It was still a lot of work to balance classes and the jobs necessary to pay the tuition. But it could be done. That isn't possible today.
"Tough luck," is not an acceptable answer.
That depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to get a college education that enables you to obtain a salary at the level you want and you are paying for it yourself either through working or borrowing, you need to think it through just like any other financial investment.
So, if $100,000 enables you to get a starting salary of $50,000 with the likely prospect of increasing that, that's not a bad ROI over a 40 year work life.
If a $100,000 degree is not a good ROI for your circumstances, then you shouldn't be taking on that debt whatever your GPA is.
If your goal is to change the system, then you need to get involved in activism that does that while realizing its unlikely you will make much money doing that.
I just think the reason millennials are unhappy is because generations above them had cheap college and fine careers. Now those same generations are telling them, yeah good for us, however, you need to get a job to pay your way through community college for a pipefitting certificate.
It's very different than even my generation where my parents didn't want any of us to work part time jobs because it would negatively affect our chances to get good grades and get into better schools, have better scholarships, etc.
Most people I know paid their way through college.
My husband and I certainly did, as did nearly all of our friends from high school.
And surely you know you're not limited to a "pipefitting" certification at a community college. Though I will point out that my husband has only a two year associate's degree from a community college but has worked his way up over 35 years and now has a very lucrative career. Did he start out making "the big bucks" though? No. He started out making about $2 above minimum wage - with his two year degree. But he had patience and fortitude and worked his rear off for thirty years before starting his own company and moving into a higher income bracket.
All of our five kids worked part time in high school. We only have one child (my stepson) who hasn't worked through college (and paid for at least a portion of their college education) - and the only reason my stepson hasn't worked is because his mother inherited a large amount of money and told him he didn't have to work while he was going to college. (My husband and I don't agree with her decision and we'd actually pay more toward his college courses if he WAS working part time.)
You don't get it - I'm beginning to think willfully so.
Just because a person may not be able to afford to go to a "prestigious college," nearly everyone can afford to go to at the very least a community college. A college degree is not some out of reach financial goal for the vast majority of Americans. However, some colleges are much more expensive than other colleges. If a person can't afford to go to an expensive college, then it is what it is. It's not WRONG that they can't afford it - it's just a fact that they can't afford it. Heck, there are all sorts of expensive things in life that I'd like to have but I can't afford.
A degree from a prestigious college isn't a basic human right. Neither is a college education, for that matter.
For everyone posting here,who went to college and recieved a degree,how many of you were asked by your present employer which college you recieved that degree from.
My daughter aspires to become a doctor and while shadowing one she asked him if your choice of college made a difference........he replied"hon,after you get your licensce to practice medicine no one cares where you got your education"
For everyone posting here,who went to college and recieved a degree,how many of you were asked by your present employer which college you recieved that degree from.
My daughter aspires to become a doctor and while shadowing one she asked him if your choice of college made a difference........he replied"hon,after you get your licensce to practice medicine no one cares where you got your education"
In my field it makes a big difference. If you went to MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech, Berk and a list of about 18 other engineering schools, you basically get an interview automatically.
That doctor is a little wrong. The top specialties that everyone wants to get into these days like dermatology are hyper competitive and it definitely does help to have gone to Harvard Medical School rather than University of North Dakota Medical School. And to get into HMS it helps to have gone to an ivy or similarly elite undergrad.
However, if you want to be a GP or general surgeon or ER doc it doesn't really matter where you go.
For everyone posting here,who went to college and recieved a degree,how many of you were asked by your present employer which college you recieved that degree from.
My daughter aspires to become a doctor and while shadowing one she asked him if your choice of college made a difference........he replied"hon,after you get your licensce to practice medicine no one cares where you got your education"
Interesting, I would have said that is one of the few professions it would matter where you went.
So, if it doesn't matter for that then imo it probably doesn't matter for much else.
Personally, I never had anyone discuss with me where I went except one hiring manager who went to the same place and that was just social chit chat.
When unemployment is high, it may be something hiring managers use to thin the crowd, but as a former hiring manager myself it was not something that held more sway than what happened in the interview even though I may have noted if they went to a prestigious university.
I already told you what homework PE required. Extracurricular sports. It could be team or individual sports, or even something like dance or yoga, but showing up and standing around would earn you a C. We even had a kid in a wheelchair who got his A by joining the small bore rifle team, and a kid with cerebral palsy who earned his A by being the equipment manager for the football team. There was swimming, tennis, judo and cross country in addition to football, basketball, wrestling, volleyball, baseball and track. Take your pick. Once upon a time we knew that a healthy body was important for a successful life.
Are there enough sports and enough spots to truly have people on teams and equipment? My old high school in New York had soccer (boy's and girl's), cross-country (boy's and girl's), field hockey, football, volleyball (boy's and girl's), tennis (boy's and girls), basketball (boy's and girl's), bowling (boy's and girl's), winter track (co-ed by nature), wrestling, badminton, softball, lacrosse (boy's and girl's), spring track (boy's and girl's), baseball and cheer. Now for some there was junior varsity teams (baseball (our best sport) even had a second JV as well.) Most teams had around 15 to 25 (bowling and boy's tennis was under ten and football was about 45 for both). My graduating class was 205 so because it was a 9-12 school that would be four grades or roughly 820 students. At about 39 teams including all JV teams that would be about 780 students that can be on the teams. Highly reasonable 40 students could do that right?
Well here's where it gets hairy...
A number did multiple sports. Say winter track and boy/girl's spring track had a floatover as did football with wrestling and baseball and a member of the bowling team being on varsity volleyball as well. So with this, we can maybe drop it down 100 students to 680 students, and that is being conservative. So you have 140 students who are not student athletes that need to be equipment managers which would be roughly 4 per sport at 39 sport teams (probably more for the football programs but you get the idea.) So at my school, it might have been doable but a school with say 500 students per graduating class like in some mega schools and you'd have to add more and more sports or spread the equipment tasks out thinly.
Now I am not denying what a healthy body does. I look at my family with all the health issues we have whether it is diabetes, aneurysm (in the blood stream), cancer, kidney issues, glaucoma, etc. so I don't take health lightly. I pride myself on doing 20-60 minutes of yoga a day for 4 to 5 days a week. I do drink mostly water, juice and lemonade or ice tea. I do try to watch what I eat. When I was in gym class, I gave it all even if it was soccer and I sucked in the games or it was hockey and I was hustling because I always loved that sport or it was quarter or half quarter weight training and I would push myself to gradually add the next weight while I saw others in my class talk or put in minimal effort. So my A's in gym weren't handed out for nothing, I did what was asked of me which was show up dressed, listen to rules, give an effort and possibly improve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
I also played several brass instruments in the band, and there was intensive homework there. I put in many hours doing exercises and learning my parts. When we did small ensembles we scheduled our own rehearsal times. I was too busy to give it the time it deserved, but my classmates who went on to become professional musicians practiced at least 20 hours a week outside of class. The jazz band I was a member of rehearsed 6 hours a week, and we were expected to know our part when we started rehearsal.
Chorus was fairly similar for me. I tried every single year for Jazz Choir (I did it in seventh and eighth grade, my problem was there was good basses/baritones in there.) There was also women's choir as well for girls who wanted to do more than just in class singing and a barber shop quartet (which was REALLY competitive to be in from the Jazz Choir boys.) We had three to four concerts each year as well as a performance every winter at a local business center AND a local tree lightning. You also had NYSMA which I did once as a solo act, I did pretty well at it but I had interests in Boy Scouts as well (I was actually working on my Eagle Scout project at the time I did NYSMA.) Had I been in Jazz Choir, I would have done NYSMA several more times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
The guys in shop class did minor fab projects all the time and turned in one big project at the end of the year. They normally worked in small groups to design the project and draw the blueprints, which they had to do as homework. If they had access to tools outside of school they could work on their projects on their own time, but if not you could find them working there at lunch and after school to get their work done.
I only had shop in seventh and eighth grade. I had other electives that were state mandated or ones that the school thought was necessary. Whether it is bad or not, who knows. It's easy to chuck rocks at the way things are done now if you are not entrenched in the current system through sons, daughters, nieces, nephews even grandchildren or not working in education. Is education perfect, no. But that's not a generational issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
You weed out the deadwood by setting standards. It doesn't matter so much how you do it as when. You tell them up front what is required and how that will be scored, then stick to it. If they don't do it, they fail. They get a chance to take the class over, but they need to know right up front that they have failed. A lot of the problems the millennials have is that they have never failed at anything. People carried them, powdered their asses and told them they were great, when in fact they were worthless. They get all the way through college without failing at anything, then get dumped into the real world were people fail all the time. The cognitive dissonance drives them nuts. Learning to deal with failure is an essential part of the educational process. The earlier they learn to take control of their life, the better off they will be.
I think the issue is we don't pull enough from great students. It's all about tests rather than projects. I can count by semester how many English or Social Studies projects you had on one hand (two) but yet tests I can see four to five EASY. Tests don't often truly pop up in life, projects do. This is why I think I did better in college because the four to five tests I would ace because I retained things without homework repetition. My mind just works in that way with remembering dates and how to do things after doing it in class twice to three times.
The failing point is a bit different. I've failed at things. I failed at college because I didn't apply myself my first semester. You think I am proud of that? No. I just learned from it and like I said, I became a better student once I learned college vs. high school.
I don't think the first fail is the problem, even the time. I can't tell you how anxious people were about tests, finals, regents, projects, presentations, and S.A.T./A.C.T.s and if they failed those. The problem is we don't prepare people. We don't do home economics or "home math" so we have to hope our parents taught us to budget or else we fail and try to learn on our owns when we graduate college shackled in debt. We don't prepare for college so you have people sink who maybe given a resource could have floated just a minute longer could have learned how to swim. The problem is we don't do this and instead try to give life vests but they don't have the buckles and wind up in their parent's house because they can't survive out there, even with sharing rooms because the income from the jobs they needed to go to college for wont let them in. It's not about being coddled, it's about not finding out Oz is a man behind the curtain and not the guy in the tube until it's too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell
They could all go live at your house. At the moment we are letting the deadwood weed itself out, by dropping out. It's a self-selection process that works fairly well. About a third of the population isn't worth anything but an 8th grade education, and that is about the dropout rate. They are hard put to read street signs, will never read a book in their life, and can't add two fractions together to save their life. They are all around you. We don't have to do anything with them. At that, they are often better off than the middle of the pack college graduate who is under the impression they have done something worthy of note after investing tens of thousands of dollars in their failure.
It wasn't easy to drop out in New York, not saying it was good or bad but it's just the way it is. I saw in community college how bad people are at math.
As for the college graduate, it's the Oz point I made earlier. They are taught that they can get to Oz and all their answers will be found but it turns out that the wizard is a fraud and can only give the scarecrow a meaningless diploma for his gift of brains.
Personally I did all that extra curricular stuff in high school and IMO it's kind of worthless these days. I think at one point in time, maybe it did matter. Like if you were a "B" student who was in all the clubs, debate team, sports, music groups and theatre, you were heralded for being "well rounded." That kind of thing seemed to work pretty well for my dad. There are no careers now where being well rounded in that manner is still an asset. It's far better to be "A+" academically and load up on extra math classes instead of being in the glee club.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
At the moment we are letting the deadwood weed itself out, by dropping out. It's a self-selection process that works fairly well. About a third of the population isn't worth anything but an 8th grade education, and that is about the dropout rate. They are hard put to read street signs, will never read a book in their life, and can't add two fractions together to save their life. They are all around you. We don't have to do anything with them. At that, they are often better off than the middle of the pack college graduate who is under the impression they have done something worthy of note after investing tens of thousands of dollars in their failure.
