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The trust was created as a result of a legal document. Upon your mom's death, the Will was probated, even if it was simply to say that everything in the estate went into the Trust (A "pour over" will). As you say, your brother is the Trustee of that Trust. Was he also the only Executor of the estate (i.e., the Will)?
However, if You (or anyone else for that matter) are named in that trust, there is a legal obligation for him to notify you and share at least that portion of the trust as it relates to you, with you. The Trust is a legal entity and is to be enforced as such. If you are in there, and he says you are not, that is an issue of fraud.
Your lawyer will guide you and help you to get access to this information.
(I am not a lawyer, but am broadly familiar, from experience, with this issue. I may not be exact, especially as relates to your situation, but you have rights if you are named in the Trust and need to see a lawyer about protecting those rights)
Good luck. Don't be bamboozled by this bully.
Mom told me that she didn't have a Will. She just had the Irrevocable Trust. I haven't heard anything about any probate and yes, my brother is the only executor. I have no idea what he's doing about any of it. He doesn't communicate with me unless he wants money from me. Got a note left on my car windshield that he wants $400 ASAP. When Hell freezes over.
There is no "share" for me or my other siblings. It's ALL my brothers. Although I'm sure all of our names are in the Trust. Maybe just to say that we are SOL. But, NONE of us want any money out ofthe Trust. Since none of us have ever seen a copy we have no idea but I think we are entitled to read the dang thing. I called an attorney this morning but they want $225 hour for a consultation and I can't afford that. I need to cover my butt with him about other things that have little to do with money.
Yes, that's right. He repays the estate prior to the estate being divided up. So the part he repays gets divided 3 ways.
Besides, OP, handling an estate is a lot of work. You shouldn't begrudge him some money for his time and effort. He, in turn, might consider giving some extras to your sis; letting her have the pick of the furniture and other heirlooms, the silverware, or whatever. For example.
And yes, people get grabby on these occasions. People can shock you; you really find out who you're dealing with when it comes to settling an inheritance. Even the in-laws can get greedy, and take stuff that was earmarked to a direct descendant.
Mom told me that she didn't have a Will. She just had the Irrevocable Trust. I haven't heard anything about any probate and yes, my brother is the only executor. I have no idea what he's doing about any of it. He doesn't communicate with me unless he wants money from me. Got a note left on my car windshield that he wants $400 ASAP. When Hell freezes over.
There is no "share" for me or my other siblings. It's ALL my brothers. Although I'm sure all of our names are in the Trust. Maybe just to say that we are SOL. But, NONE of us want any money out ofthe Trust. Since none of us have ever seen a copy we have no idea but I think we are entitled to read the dang thing. I called an attorney this morning but they want $225 hour for a consultation and I can't afford that. I need to cover my butt with him about other things that have little to do with money.
How many siblings are there, not counting your brother? Get everyone to pitch in.
That is correct. He does not owe the entire 36 to you and your sister. Furthermore, the two of you had ample opportunity to borrow or get whatever you could while your parents were alive. You chose not to do so. He chose to do so. So be it.
This story repeats itself a thousand times a day all over the world. There are awful things that happen in families when estates come into question.
You have to figure out if it's worth it to lose a brother over. If it is, move on and don't look back.
If it isn't, forget about it and move on.
Does money just naturally bring out the worst in people? I always thought my family was pretty close and we (myself and older brother and sister) have struggled through my parents losing their health and dying this past year. They lived very long lives but I really miss them. Finding this to be a hard transition.
Now, we are settling their estate. Brother (call him "Joe") is executor of the estate. Sister did a LOT to help my parents as they lived nearby in assisted living then moved to the nursing home section. Brother and I tried to go there on weekends and visit, help out parents but she got the brunt.
Joe, the executor, borrowed money from Mom & Dad years ago (for his mortgage, etc.) and always agreed - just verbally - that he would pay it back to his sisters. He had no problem asking them to pay for stuff - his kid's college education, even his son's rent during college. Sister and I just didn't ask them for things, believing that it's better just to take care of yourself.
As to the debt it is about $36K. So, he paid half of this to me and half to sister and all other funds were split 3 ways.
Then, on advice of his tax guy he tells us he should get $12K of this money back as "his third". Sister and I are pretty dubious about it, but the financial place the estate is held at said this is legal but "we have to agree to this." If anyone deserved extra $ it is my sister!
Joe is very angry that we don't immediately trust him and question this deal. Is very upset but then talks about how easy it would have been to cheat us about the debt. Then has the nerve to say, "Mom and Dad would have been very disappointed at how you are acting." Pretty funny that he is playing the guilt card!
I feel just sick that things have come to this, fighting over money. Sister and I decided just to let him have it. I don't think the money is worth ruining the relationship but obviously he doesn't feel the same.
Anyone have a similar experience? Thoughts, ideas? The money is a done deal but I don't know how to relate to Joe. He turned out to be someone I don't know.
I think your brother's position is correct. He put 36k into the net worth of the estate, it should be distributed equally.
"So he paid half of this to me and half to my sister and the rest was split three ways".
It's not clear to me from this statement whether brother actually paid $36K of his own money to the estate, or whether $36K from the estate was split between the two sisters, with the remainder being split three ways.
For example, say the estate was $120,000. Did he write his own check for $36K to the estate, then the estate wrote $18K to each sister, then all three got $40K each? If this is the case, his attorney is correct. The estate had $120K cash and a "note" for $36K (doesn't matter if it was owed by brother, or some other entity). Once the $36K was paid back, the estate now had $156K. The $156K should then be split three ways --$52K each.
However, when I first read the OP, my interpretation was that brother was trying to make it all work out without actually coming up with $36K of new money to repay the estate. In that case, it sounded like he was taking the first $36K of the $120K estate and giving it to the sisters, then splitting three ways the remaining $84K. This would mean each sister got $46K ($28K + $18K) and brother got $28K. If THIS is what actually happened, then he shouldn't be entitled to a "share" of the $36K, because the estate didn't actually take in $36K. It also just isn't the right math to use, as the brother is still getting some sort of credit for a repayment he didn't actually make.
The simplest way to do this is to go back to the estate totalling $120K cash plus the $36K promissory note: a total of $156K in cash and notes. Divided three ways, it's $52K each. Brother, because the note is actually owed by him, should take the $36K note as part of his share, plus $16K in cash. The sisters each get $52K. This way, everyone gets 1/3 of the true estate, the sisters don't have to chase the brother for the debt, and the brother is fully repaying the debt out of his share -- correctly.
If Joe paid you and your sister back the $36,000 he borrowed from your parents (when you never did), to me that implies a belief on his part that he DID owe your parents a debit in that amount. I don't know about the math, but it seems to me the fair thing would be for him to pay the amount owed to the estate and then the total of the estate, post the repayment, is divided among the three of you. Had he not borrowed that money from your parents, it presumably would have been part of the estate.
My question would be, if he had the money, why did he have to borrow it from your parents and not pay it back until after their deaths. It should have been paid back as soon as he was able to pay. At the very least the estate lost interest due to your brother.
But if you're so concerned with being "fair," I assume you're going to ask your sister what would be proper compensation for all the extra trouble she took with your parents and you'll pay her out of your share of the inheritance. Speaking as a caregiver, I can assure you that the out-of-towners who "try" to visit on weekends rarely even show up on two of the seven days of the week the in-town sibling is on call. They "try" but unless the parents are hospitalized something usually gets in the way and, oh well, if there's an emergency sis will handle it.
In the OP's case. I think whatever money your mom gave your brother in the past was between them. What was there after she died, should be split three ways. If he paid money back, then yes, you owe him the extra money. No need for hard feelings.
Does money just naturally bring out the worst in people? I always thought my family was pretty close and we (myself and older brother and sister) have struggled through my parents losing their health and dying this past year. They lived very long lives but I really miss them. Finding this to be a hard transition.
Now, we are settling their estate. Brother (call him "Joe") is executor of the estate. Sister did a LOT to help my parents as they lived nearby in assisted living then moved to the nursing home section. Brother and I tried to go there on weekends and visit, help out parents but she got the brunt.
Joe, the executor, borrowed money from Mom & Dad years ago (for his mortgage, etc.) and always agreed - just verbally - that he would pay it back to his sisters. He had no problem asking them to pay for stuff - his kid's college education, even his son's rent during college. Sister and I just didn't ask them for things, believing that it's better just to take care of yourself.
As to the debt it is about $36K. So, he paid half of this to me and half to sister and all other funds were split 3 ways.
Then, on advice of his tax guy he tells us he should get $12K of this money back as "his third". Sister and I are pretty dubious about it, but the financial place the estate is held at said this is legal but "we have to agree to this." If anyone deserved extra $ it is my sister!
Joe is very angry that we don't immediately trust him and question this deal. Is very upset but then talks about how easy it would have been to cheat us about the debt. Then has the nerve to say, "Mom and Dad would have been very disappointed at how you are acting." Pretty funny that he is playing the guilt card!
I feel just sick that things have come to this, fighting over money. Sister and I decided just to let him have it. I don't think the money is worth ruining the relationship but obviously he doesn't feel the same.
Anyone have a similar experience? Thoughts, ideas? The money is a done deal but I don't know how to relate to Joe. He turned out to be someone I don't know.
In a way, he is right, in that the amount that the parents lent him, had it been in their estate, would have been split three ways - so yes, if you were looking at it that way, he should only have had to pay each of you one third, not one half, of the money they had lent him.
First of all, I'm very surprised that he paid you anything, in the first place, not because he should not have, but because unfortunately when it comes down to it, most children consider anything that they got out of their parents to have been a gift to them, no matter what the parents said. Your parents made a stupid mistake that I wish more people would avoid. Assuming the parents have the means, whenever an adult child comes to them for money, if they want to give that child money, they should give the equivalent amount of money right then and there to each child. That way there is no question about fairness, and no conflict. Giving individual children "advances" on their inheritance is a great way to ensure that your children will not have anything to do with each other after you are gone.
So now you are left with the fact that your brother got more from your parents than you girls did. The money has already been returned to him, and the estate distributed? Let it go. Has he been an all right person, sibling, and son otherwise? Just let it go. Is it worth losing a sibling (and nieces and nephews) over this?
On the other hand, if has has not been a good person, sibling, and son, and you want to be done with him because he will only continue to bring you misery, then you are completely justified in having nothing to do with him henceforth, now that your parents are gone, and will not suffer because of a rift between their children.
Sound like your brother is a jerk and always will be. Let him have it but it will just avoid the arguments to come in the future over other stuff.
I would not give it to him out of principal and I would explain why.
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