Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The median household income in Queens is $37,439. If $150K is entry into a middle class life style, then that means that the overwhelming majority of the 2.3 million residents of Queens - probably 90% or more - are working class or poor.
The middle class is shrinking. And it's shrinking alarmingly fast. So yes, there are many more poor people than ever before -- places like the Bay Area and New York City are ground zero for "rich getting richer, poor getting poorer."
New York has their rent control program, which is akin to applying a band-aid to a massive chest wound. Income isn't keeping pace with prices. And everyone except the wealthy feel the squeeze from this. Even the vaunted Bootstrappers of this thread would be better Bootstrappers if wages kept pace with inflation.
rent controlled apartments are just about gone here. we still have about 1 million rent stabilized apartments left but they have nothing to do with income or net worth.
they strictly work by how long the tenant lived in their apartment.
our apartment is rent stabilized and my wife has been in it 35 years. we pay about 150 bucks a month less than market at this point ,that is all and we are up near 1900 a month stabilized.
rent controlled apartments are just about gone here. we still have about 1 million rent stabilized apartments left but they have nothing to do with income or net worth.
they strictly work by how long the tenant lived in their apartment.
our apartment is rent stabilized and my wife has been in it 35 years. we pay about 150 bucks a month less than market at this point ,that is all and we are up near 1900 a month stabilized.
That's still significantly higher than the amount of Section 8 housing that we have in my area. Same basic program, same basic problem.
section 8 is totally different . section 8 housing is subsidized housing . we have lots of that too but that is very different from stabilized. stabilized has no income requirements or net worth requirements. all it means is a city board votes on the rent increases , which have been pretty real world for years now. it just prevents rent gouging or at least that was its initial premise.
I don't see them as totally different. I see both problems as heads on the same hydra -- manipulating the market to keep people from falling into homelessness.
And while I'm more than fine with keeping people from falling into homelessness, I think we're going about it the wrong way.
section 8 looks to reduce homelessness , not stabilization , anyone who got an apartment the last 20 years is just about at market rate.
only the real old timers who were around when the rent increases were a political ploy for winning votes and artifically kept low really made out.
most buildings today not city owned were taken co-op to escape stabilization back in the 1980's.
as soon as the origonal tenants are out they are market rate ,.
our investment stratagy the last 12 years has been owning rent stabilized co-op apartments in a very prestigous nyc building over looking central park,.
we offer 100k for the leases and then we buy the leases out and sell the apartments for 7 figures.,
only stuck with 2 apartments at this point out of 9 where they did not take the money.
by the way our tenants all had a net worth greater than we did.
folks mis-understand what rent stabilized means and picture some grand mother on food stamps living in it.
but net worth and even income were never part of the equation. today the only ties to you financially are if your stabilized rent is more than 2500 dollars and your income was over 200k for 2 years in a row the landlord can ask for you to be de-stabilized .
that is it , nothing else matters. the building we live in is upper class to wealthy and the apartments we own in nyc are the same , upper middle class to wealthy and we are talking nyc upper middle class not phoenix or atlanta upper middle class. these folks are in the upper 10 percentile or higher.
Rent stabilization is not the same thing as rent control and neither has anything to do with income limits You can be in any income bracket and live in a stabilized unit. NYCHA public housing has income limits. Stabilized units are not public housing. It's not even subsidized housing. The only thing that could be claimed as subsidization is tax incentives offered through the J-51 and 421-a programs.
Rent control is entirely different you can still get increases on controlled units through something called an MBR but there are only 36,000 controlled units left and falling in numbers yearly..
Last edited by mathjak107; 02-13-2015 at 12:14 PM..
Hmm... this thread is far off fromt the original "point"?
Here are some observations people have made for generations that are unmistakable:
~it's all relative:
~People tend to spend what they make...If they make $100K/year they will spend $100K/year.
~There is ALWAYS someone who is getting by on less than you are, even if only the hobo under the bridge who's panhandling or chasing returnable bottles for his lunch money
~Your housing costs will directly correlate to your income {no one,for example, who makes $100k/yr will live in a $45K house that they could pay for in one years savings of salary}
~housing costs will directly correlate to the "average income" of the region in which it is located
~"frugal" and "cheap" are not the same thing
~"poor" is relative-spending all of your $100K/yr could make you "poor"
~"rich" is relative- comparatively, to a person living on $25k/yr, $100k/yr would likely make them "rich" if they could get it...
~SAVINGS will help get you "rich"
~NOT SPENDING money will help get you "rich"
~INVESTING money will help get you "rich"
~INHERITANCE will help get you "rich"
~you are as "rich" as you think you are
~You are as "poor" as you think you are
I don't see them as totally different. I see both problems as heads on the same hydra -- manipulating the market to keep people from falling into homelessness.
And while I'm more than fine with keeping people from falling into homelessness, I think we're going about it the wrong way.
And that is the rub. If you want to manipulate the market so that people stop falling into homelessness, then this is it.
Wages have to go up faster than debt.
Do that and the cost of housing will forever be cheap.
Hmm... this thread is far off fromt the original "point"?
Here are some observations people have made for generations that are unmistakable:
~it's all relative:
~People tend to spend what they make...If they make $100K/year they will spend $100K/year.
~There is ALWAYS someone who is getting by on less than you are, even if only the hobo under the bridge who's panhandling or chasing returnable bottles for his lunch money
~Your housing costs will directly correlate to your income {no one,for example, who makes $100k/yr will live in a $45K house that they could pay for in one years savings of salary}
~housing costs will directly correlate to the "average income" of the region in which it is located
~"frugal" and "cheap" are not the same thing
~"poor" is relative-spending all of your $100K/yr could make you "poor"
~"rich" is relative- comparatively, to a person living on $25k/yr, $100k/yr would likely make them "rich" if they could get it...
~SAVINGS will help get you "rich"
~NOT SPENDING money will help get you "rich"
~INVESTING money will help get you "rich"
~INHERITANCE will help get you "rich"
~you are as "rich" as you think you are
~You are as "poor" as you think you are
~See, its all relative
Millionaire Next Door types don't chase bigger and better houses.
~There is ALWAYS someone who is getting by on less than you are, even if only the hobo under the bridge who's panhandling or chasing returnable bottles for his lunch money
That is funny.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
