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If you want to discuss politics there is a political forum. You can study the issues, vote and hope your vote makes a difference. I consider this forum to be a good place to learn what you can do to improve you financial health and career. If you want to change the world to meet your expectations, good luck.
Many on the left don't want you to get a had for yourself and your family. It's almost like they fear that. Instead they want you to sacrifice yourself for some collective movement that we're not become successful. They have your number as I have count toward their movement. But they can't give you success. So in the end you're going to become a cynical complainer and another vote of a failed life for the political left. Are they helping you or are they just using you?
Think about it is it really worth it given up what you could potentially have you want to join the fantasy movements? Are they responsible for the opportunity costs if their movements don't get you what they promised ?
Many on the left don't want you to get a had for yourself and your family. It's almost like they fear that. Instead they want you to sacrifice yourself for some collective movement that we're not become successful. They have your number as I have count toward their movement. But they can't give you success. So in the end you're going to become a cynical complainer and another vote of a failed life for the political left. Are they helping you or are they just using you?
Think about it is it really worth it given up what you could potentially have you want to join the fantasy movements? Are they responsible for the opportunity costs if their movements don't get you what they promised ?
I am sure you are correct. Some people who complain about the current economic conditions do so for political reasons. They want a socialistic or at least a more leftist approach.
I think there are a lot of other reasons that people complain. This past recession was a whopper. Most of us .. in fact most of the world .. took a heavy hit and some people have still not recovered. Losing jobs and houses are tough. The depth of the recession and the slow recovery have not helped. There are also those who are just chronic complainers. Nothing is good enough and it is always someone's fault. The chronic complainers are typically insecure. Complaining and blaming relieves them of responsibility. It is not surprise that many of the chronic complainers are prone to belief in weird and improbable conspiracy theories. All of us can become confused in our thinking, but this forum seems to have attracted a number of individuals who are well into the group of the mentally ill. I say this not because I have a different opinion, but because there are patterns of behavior that fit the clinical conditions.
There is no way I could hope to change anyone with a mental illness, but I do hope some of the complainers will realize that taking responsibility is the first step we must take if we want to achieve success in life, including financial success. We have lots of choices and opportunities to improve our jobs, careers and to accomplish something with our lives. Others will just continue to complain and look for the "facts" which justify their complaints.
Another Good Old Days Myth.
When I was a kid my relatives owned a farm and I helped in the summers. I was warned to wash my hands if I touched the chicken feed. It was full of fungicides and other chemicals, and I assume growth promoters since, hahaha, I might grow **** if I did not wash my hands. We sprayed the crops with fungicides, pesticides, insecticides and who knows what other chemicals. None were tested or regulated and most are now banned. Of course, lots more people had household vegetable gardens. Those also got sprayed with chemicals from the local hardware store. Then there were those tasty vegetables grown in those beautiful gardens next to the house or in the backyard behind a nice picket fence. Of course in both cases the lead paint flacked off of the house or fence and contaminated the soil and crops.
I do share your concern about the ongoing treatment of beef, milk, eggs and chickens. I buy certified organic beef, milk and eggs at Costco for not much more than the non-organic choices and for less than grocery store prices. Chickens are more difficult. I buy hormone-free at standard prices and gave up trying to find certified organic. It is available but at twice the price and hard to find.
I am not too happy with clothing from the good old days. There was some wonderful wool clothing that would cost a fortune now. The typical cotton work clothing is not something I would want. I don't buy 100% cotton shirts, pants or jackets for lots of reasons which are not likely to be of interest to you.
You say myth.
I say your cherry picking time, place, and circumstances.
(to make it seem as dire as possible.)
Which simply wasn't true in many times/places/circumstances.
As for organic being similarly priced.... Ive heard this from a few people in a few areas.
Most people disagree, and it's certainly not the case anywhere I've ever seen.
The trope of "good old days" is inevitable reaction to whatever presently ails us. It is less an attempt at history, than a coping mechanism and an excuse for present setbacks, pining for a mythical past that soothes our various present qualms.
In the context of economics in the US, the "good old days" typically refer to a brief period, say between 1945 and 1970, demarcated by America's WW2 victory on one end, and the rest of the world catching up (plus Vietnam, inflation and social-tensions) on the other end. Few of those who extol these good old days would extend their window of adoration to the 1930s or the 1970s. So even if we stipulate that these good old days were genuinely good, we must concede that they were genuinely brief.
I'd opine that there's a more compelling case for matters that were largely true for a great many generations, rather than for one 25-year period, but which have become vitiated in modernity, and whose loss we now lament.
Everyone will gripe the most about what ails them the most. The unemployed or under-employed bemoan the lack of good jobs. Students saddled by debt are miffed by out-of-control college tuition. So here's some whinging of my own. I refer to nothing really "economic", related to jobs or salaries or prices or retirement, or healthcare or education. Rather, my personal concern and cause for complaint is an entirely different topic: dating, romantic relationships and marriage. For nearly the totality of human history, for a man successful in his finances and his career, it was straightforward to find a wife. This was true, I think, up to 1970 or so – and therefore lines up with the bookend of the putative economic good-old-days. Today it is entirely possible to be at the pinnacle of good health, good career, a well-established and secure material life, and yet to be utterly hopeless in one's personal life. To me this is a historical anomaly and a cause for desiring to wind back the clock by 50 or 100 years (or more).
So that's my personal myth of the halcyon good-old-days. Others will have different personal myths.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make. The chart *is* adjusted for inflation. Also according to the article, *real* median income apparently doubled 6 times from 1900 to 1975. Do you know what real means?
This is what your post says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff
"Over the next 100 years, the U.S. family got smaller, more reliant on working women and computers, less reliant on working children and farms, and, most importantly, much richer. About 68-times richer, in fact. Household income (unadjusted for inflation) doubled six times in the 20th century, or once every decade and a half, on average. "
Actually it doubled 6 times in only 75 years, and then stopped for some strange reason.
I say your cherry picking time, place, and circumstances.
(to make it seem as dire as possible.)
Which simply wasn't true in many times/places/circumstances.
As for organic being similarly priced.... Ive heard this from a few people in a few areas.
Most people disagree, and it's certainly not the case anywhere I've ever seen.
Cherry picking????
Ever heard of Silent Spring? In the GOOD OLD DAYS we just did not know any better. We used chemicals that we later learned were horrible toxins, mutagens, and carcinogens. Agricultural chemicals were the worst because we consumed them directly in addition to poisoning the land, rivers and lakes. We just did not know any better. We used lead in gasoline and paints. We used asbestos everywhere something was hot. In Maryland, we used rock with high asbestos content as aggregate for road paving. The traffic wore off the road surface contaminating the area with asbestos fibers. I could go on and on, but let us just restrict the conversation to your idea of food being better in the good old days. In addition to the chemicals, food handling and processing was not as advanced. Ever heard of trichinosis? botulism? These are diseases of the past and almost unheard of today. Remember when acidic tomato sauce and every other food was packed in cans made with lead solder? This is not cherry picking. Every can was made that way.
The safety of our food remains a concern, but it was much less healthy in the good old days.
Another Good Old Days Myth.
When I was a kid my relatives owned a farm and I helped in the summers. I was warned to wash my hands if I touched the chicken feed. It was full of fungicides and other chemicals, and I assume growth promoters since, hahaha, I might grow **** if I did not wash my hands. We sprayed the crops with fungicides, pesticides, insecticides and who knows what other chemicals. None were tested or regulated and most are now banned. Of course, lots more people had household vegetable gardens. Those also got sprayed with chemicals from the local hardware store. Then there were those tasty vegetables grown in those beautiful gardens next to the house or in the backyard behind a nice picket fence. Of course in both cases the lead paint flacked off of the house or fence and contaminated the soil and crops.
I do share your concern about the ongoing treatment of beef, milk, eggs and chickens. I buy certified organic beef, milk and eggs at Costco for not much more than the non-organic choices and for less than grocery store prices. Chickens are more difficult. I buy hormone-free at standard prices and gave up trying to find certified organic. It is available but at twice the price and hard to find.
I am not too happy with clothing from the good old days. There was some wonderful wool clothing that would cost a fortune now. The typical cotton work clothing is not something I would want. I don't buy 100% cotton shirts, pants or jackets for lots of reasons which are not likely to be of interest to you.
^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname
You say myth.
I say your cherry picking time, place, and circumstances.
(to make it seem as dire as possible.)
Which simply wasn't true in many times/places/circumstances.
As for organic being similarly priced.... Ive heard this from a few people in a few areas.
Most people disagree, and it's certainly not the case anywhere I've ever seen.
Not myth at all. I grew up on farms in the 1950s and 1960s. The twin mantras of crop production in "the good old" days were "we got a spray for that" and "if a little DDT is good, a whole lot of DDT is better". Before pasteurization became the norm, milk and other dairy products were frequently contaminated with all kinds of nasty bacteria that caused illness and sometimes death, especially in young children. In the 1940s and early 1950s, there were hundreds of cases of trichinosis from eating undercooked pork, but today there are almost none (Linky).
I don't think those can be called the good old days. The civil rights did not advance until the 1960s. America was largely homogenous country. Immigration was very restricted and races and was rampant. There are plenty of other issues. It was the good old days for the white middle-class who had really average skills.
I don't often agree with you, but on this, I do. The "good old days" were essentially only that for white males since well more than half of the adult population (blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and women) was categorically barred from most of those "good" jobs that white males took for granted were theirs.
The trope of "good old days" is inevitable reaction to whatever presently ails us. It is less an attempt at history, than a coping mechanism and an excuse for present setbacks, pining for a mythical past that soothes our various present qualms.
In the context of economics in the US, the "good old days" typically refer to a brief period, say between 1945 and 1970, demarcated by America's WW2 victory on one end, and the rest of the world catching up (plus Vietnam, inflation and social-tensions) on the other end. Few of those who extol these good old days would extend their window of adoration to the 1930s or the 1970s. So even if we stipulate that these good old days were genuinely good, we must concede that they were genuinely brief.
I'd opine that there's a more compelling case for matters that were largely true for a great many generations, rather than for one 25-year period, but which have become vitiated in modernity, and whose loss we now lament.
Everyone will gripe the most about what ails them the most. The unemployed or under-employed bemoan the lack of good jobs. Students saddled by debt are miffed by out-of-control college tuition. So here's some whinging of my own. I refer to nothing really "economic", related to jobs or salaries or prices or retirement, or healthcare or education. Rather, my personal concern and cause for complaint is an entirely different topic: dating, romantic relationships and marriage. For nearly the totality of human history, for a man successful in his finances and his career, it was straightforward to find a wife. This was true, I think, up to 1970 or so – and therefore lines up with the bookend of the putative economic good-old-days. Today it is entirely possible to be at the pinnacle of good health, good career, a well-established and secure material life, and yet to be utterly hopeless in one's personal life. To me this is a historical anomaly and a cause for desiring to wind back the clock by 50 or 100 years (or more).
So that's my personal myth of the halcyon good-old-days. Others will have different personal myths.
I think your "problem" coincides with the success of feminism in giving many more women a wider assortment of choices than only between marriage or low pay/low status jobs, which is what existed previously. Women can now afford to be pickier, and they don't have to marry only for economic reasons.
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