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The only thing you need to consider are the effects. Most of the time simply "printing money" would not be a good idea. But since we've dug ourselves a hole for the last 40 years, with trade deficits, an over inflated US$ value, poor wages, low investment, escalating wealth disparity (too much going to the "investor class" and too little to the "consumer class"), and escalating debt... giving money to consumers would have a positive effect. If it is done the way I described it would specifically target these issues, and would not cause high inflation.
Nice ambitions, but complete failure to understand what's actually going on here. Your fears of globalization, floating exchange rates, trade imbalances, and debt are all without proper foundation. As the result, you have the picture painted in a confused and unbalanced manner.
Your fears of globalization, floating exchange rates, trade imbalances, and debt are all without proper foundation.
It all fits perfectly MB. Still waiting for you to explain how our wages, infrastructure, investment, and debt levels have gone to crap in the last 40 years without considering these factors and their effects.
You wouldn't have all these questions if you actually knew what you were talking about. As I said, buy a book, take a course, do something. You are otherwise lost at sea, despite my repeated mini-lectures as to the sources of your utter confusion.
You are otherwise lost at sea, despite my repeated mini-lectures as to the sources of your utter confusion
The only thing you said to refute anything rruff said was RE: GDP growth, but GDP has been stable to rising (rarely falling) in the past decade, but income inequality has gotten worse, middle class wages have been stagnant, and business development (outside silicon valley and oil) has been stagnant over the same period. Clearly GDP growth and altering the velocity of money through the economy (which has increased dramatically over the past 50 years) is inadequate to create a fair economy.
Claiming the Congress has been unwilling to help out of a recovery is also a dodge, as we have had a 15 year long war and massive increase in Homeland Security, which certainly hasn't resulted in anything any sane person would call a contraction in Federal spending. Both were stealth jobs programs and massive spending. Government can't do everything, the private sector has to help too.
So the answers to his questions have been very thin based on what you've written in this thread. I've seen your comments in other threads, so clearly you understand the issue, so why the dodge?
You also have some kind of idea that the 'financial' economy and the 'personal' economy are different, but in aggregate they are the same people.
I'd also like an explanation of how individuals paying down debt doesn't stimulate the economy. Maybe the act itself doesn't, but again in the aggregate it does. You can see that fewer people are buying houses due to debt loads, medical, university, whatever. That is contracting the home building sector of the economy.
We've also seen (yet again) that minor stimulus does very little to grow the economy: The suspension of SS matching a few years ago, lower oil prices now - these are minor stimulus that aren't enough to change long-term perspective or habits.
Last edited by TheOverdog; 06-03-2015 at 02:24 PM..
Read the thread or something. The list of things that rruff has bungled includes globalization, floating exchange rates, trade imbalances, and debt. Various of these have been muffed in other threads as well. There is a lot that he has trouble understanding in economics and from your comments above, you seem to have a decent dose of the same problem. No one argues against the historical trends. Why raise them. There has meanwhile not been any fiscal support for recovery coming from Congress since the start of 2011. The real and financial economies are two distinct regimes. If you think not, you are way outside of any modern realm. Spending spurs GDP, particularly spending that puts money into the hands of others who will spend it quickly. Money sent instead into the sideshow tent of the financial economy slows down. It does not spur GDP anymore. None of this is controversial. You could go read up on it in dozens of places.
The list of things that rruff has bungled includes globalization, floating exchange rates, trade imbalances, and debt.
I have explained how these things have contributed to the socio-economic changes we've experienced and are still experiencing. I constantly invite you to present a substantive argument but you never do. Just the snide remarks of superiority. If you knew what you were talking about, it would be an easy matter, right? I'm game. You have zero credibility, and you are a very poor shill for the things you support.
I have explained how these things have contributed to the socio-economic changes we've experienced and are still experiencing.
Read back. Each of your attempts at explanation has been blown to pieces, yet you continue to refer to them. Globalization, floating exchange rates, trade imbalances, and debt are simple and enduring facts of modern economic life. Trying to turn them into cartoon-grade villains is not really a form of economics.
If the velocity of money through the economy has slowed, which it has, it proves that the economy is very sick. It continues to slow, showing people are tight-fisted with what little cash they have, on hand.
GDP is a very poor indicator of how the economy is doing, since fundamentals (markets, indicators, etc.), no longer apply in the Ponzi world of finance. GDP, like inflation and unemployment levels, is based off of hokey numbers only an academic tool like Janet Yellen or Bernanke could try to understand. Main St. continues to suffer under this regime of ZIRP and a stagnant economy, with people getting 29.5 hour/week service sector jobs, which don't add anything to the economy, vs. full-time, productive jobs, with benefits. Add ObamaCare to the mix, and one can see how challenging the average American's finances have become.
More debt=debt slavery, which is what the oligarchs and the likes of Krugman would like to see. Wealth cannot be created from debt, but that's been the regime of the last 30+ years.
Read back. Each of your attempts at explanation has been blown to pieces, yet you continue to refer to them.
You have zero substantive arguments. That would be along the lines of explaining *why* you believe as you do and offering facts. Just BS, bluster, and insults. That doesn't cut it.
If the velocity of money through the economy has slowed, which it has, it proves that the economy is very sick. It continues to slow, showing people are tight-fisted with what little cash they have, on hand.
You are very confused. Velocity is slowest at the upper income levels. At the lower levels, people spend money as fast as they can get their hands on it. Food, rent, utilities, medicines, bus fare. That kind of thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardRoarke
GDP is a very poor indicator of how the economy is doing, since fundamentals (markets, indicators, etc.), no longer apply in the Ponzi world of finance. GDP, like inflation and unemployment levels, is based off of hokey numbers only an academic tool like Janet Yellen or Bernanke could try to understand.
LOL. If you say so.
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