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Old 04-15-2016, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,590,852 times
Reputation: 4817

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Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazy67 View Post
Just curious, how did you come up with your 1-2% calculation? Did you do the math or just make a guess?
I did the math just pulling some assumptions out of my butt. You can do it too.

Assume a 25% MW increase, that effects 20% of the population who collectively make 4% of national income.

The expected rise in prices would be 25% of 4% or 1%.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,756,720 times
Reputation: 24863
Poorly paid employees make a bit more and poorly run businesses make less. All is right with the world.
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:58 AM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,631,047 times
Reputation: 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
There is the long term effect of this which is often not factored -'HEALTH", the body can only take so much abuse and poor nutritional intake. When many who are trapped in these cycles get in their 40's they start to have health problems, even earlier we've seen a dramatic rise in Obesity, not because the people are not working and or having their time occupied, but because the quality of food and the depressive nature of deprivation, is a metabolic disaster as well.
It's a big struggle for people in these situations as well, to try and present their best image, (that becomes a cost factor), over time it takes more make up, it takes more things to keep up their esteem, and we often find "gaudy" has set in, and that carries its own penalty.
People seem to then get caught in the drinking loop as a pressure relief, and that habit takes on its own cycle.

America should know deeply the ravages of poverty, all it has to do is look at the history of former slaves and segregated people, as well as look at back woods, or inner city, poor whites and rural living minorities and whites in run down community areas.

This nation has the power to change these things, but it takes a cultural mentality change both among the wealthy and the poor, but to get and make that change function, people must be paid a wage suitable to develop and have a sustainable living environment and the ability to engage the social, civic and economic functions within the communities expanse.

The concept of "Middle Class" is what makes the economy work, makes for workers who are not despaired. there was a time when people "identified with their work and job community, they had a vested esteemed value about the company they worked for. The "Union Jobs" holders had bonds in both work, community and company. But when the Unions were busted, and people had no voice, no protections and eventually their benefits were diminished or stripped away, or in some cases the co-pays consumed a % far beyond their ability to maintain and still have functional allowance to expend in the community. If anyone has noticed, people no longer have the money they once had to give to organizations such as when the Church community center actually had services and amenities for young and old, culture clubs functions such as YMCA, YWCA and such things. Now there are massive churches, with community centers that are "closed" , or in some cases now leased out to organizations that help people get public service assistance of some sort. These are community and life change events in our society.

Even our schools have found suffrage, the "band" is almost non existent, culture clubs no longer are part of the cultural offerings, some have no science fairs or anything of such for the young people. Even the sports programs at many are gone, and sadly some schools have become so regimented toward state required scores under the budget squeeze games, they have taken away the recreation, and gym class is now far less than what it use to be. Often its cited that 'financial challenge" is tied as the root of loss of these attributes.

There are/is many positive collateral benefits to society when people are paid a decent living wage !!!! people use those resources, and that money circulates in the community multiple times, rather than the bulk of company and corporate money going to the headquarters and the executives overpay themselves to push the company into every phase of default, and blame it on employees wage and benefit. The systemic madness reverberates across the system. the unwise fix in the goon trained minds of the executives is to "seek slaves on foreign soil" and then pawn off cheap, low quality goods on the american low wage earners, and the big result is turning america people into generalized mass of store clerks at low minimum wage pay.

Then people wonder why communities fall, people no longer paint their homes, they don't trim their shrubbery and the streets in the community become potholed to the point that navigation is a nightmare to travel 10 blocks. Yes, there is a major ripple effect brought on by "low wages", "outsourcing jobs", and bleeding the people to repeat buying low quality goods because they can't afford to buy durable goods.

We can thank the Educational system and their Globalist mentality, who have forgot the premise that it takes a nation to be strong within itself, to be an effective and progressive stable entity in the globalist system.

China demonstrated that, when it used its money to uplift more than 300 million people, and invested in its infrastructure and put work into building its social safety nets, (they are far short but at least they are trying).
Here, we have people trained to think of how to bleed the public so the wealthy an buy homes on each Coast that sit empty most of the year, and they play "Jet Setters" trying to emulate the entertainers and titans of the 1960's as the imagery promoted in the movies and other media depictions.

Our salvation has to come through the young people; it has to be changed by the young who reject the "greed teaching" in the University programming of the elite schools, they have to reject the status games of degree titles being the new form of social segregation and they have to understand the re-investment in American is what produces stability of person and nation.
The corporate leaders of tomorrow have to become people who understand community, city, person and system, and what it takes to head a business which respects its responsibility unto these things, and not be driven by personal greed and vain status objectives.
Very nice post!

The big problem is the young people have a burden like no other generation burdened by failing social programs (social security/Medicare) to support the massive Baby Boom Generation, student loan debt, increased costs of living/decreased wages adjusted for inflation than previous generations, devalued currency, etc..

The generations that have preceded us have not done a very good job and we are in a HUGE hole right now thanks to many administrations allowing/not handling key issues for this country. Hate to say it but the ones benefiting from all the social programs (ie the Baby Boom Generation) are the ones that did not work to solve the issues we are going to face. They lived high on the success of their parent's generation ignoring the issues passing them onto their children.

I don't know how as a younger person we are going to support the Baby Boom Generation along with attempting to have some type of livelihood of our own. Many are putting off having families due to financial restraint. Many are in a "lost" generation as the economic conditions have eroded their prime years in life making having their own families impossible. THis has contributed to destroying the family unit in this country which many believe is the foundation for a nation.

Things are real ugly right now in more than one way and I see it getting a lot worse before it gets better. IF it ever recovers..
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:59 AM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,672,422 times
Reputation: 17362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Increasing the minimum wage to compensate for failed housing policies is a very stupid move. Then a MW increase will just increase rent for small houses. The effect will be that unemployed will struggle even more.

The right solution is to build more houses and apartments. MW should always be based on median wage, not cost of living.
I pointed out the COL, as a realistic metric, AND, the immediate problem of low wage earners in Portland Oregon suffering the unprecedented rise in housing cost. I'm left to wonder if you think there is a type of logical metric that supersedes this need for wages to be somewhat in line with COL, your "median wage" notions make it sound as though there is a precise scientific logic tied to it. "Build more houses and apartments"---Portland has been on a building spree for years, all at "market" prices.

Wages have not kept pace with prices---For some people. Others have moved on with appropriate raises that in fact have risen above the "need" levels and accounts for that portion of economic activity that is sustaining business and creating revenue for municipalities instead of creating a cost to government trying to help the low wage earners with tax supported aid. It is the presence of low wage earners in the various government help lines that serve as testimony to the fact that YOU are paying that difference between wages that allow for a true Independence OR wages that create a "needy class" of workers. Dumping low wage earners on the back of taxpayers all while demonizing them for their plight is an old media ploy supported by the merchant class that pays the freight in ad revenue for that same media.

It's not lost on me that we may be looking at a very real rise in prices in some sectors should the wage floor rise, BUT, is that less tolerable than the thought that your prosperity is riding on the back of someone's suffering a punishing poverty? Prices for fish in my area are through the roof, is the min wage playing a role in that? Prices for gas are pretty low in my area, is this connected to low wages? No, it isn't, and wages aren't factored in direct proportion to price structures. Prices have risen, simply because business has other costs that factor in their price points, wages are the one thing that most businesses can/and do, negotiate. Poverty, not "the market" drives low wage scenarios.

Stupid moves: Thinking that wages are part of that great mystical equation that theorizes one party's interest to be superior to that of the other (workers), and by extension--the worker must be subjected to the notion that, business margins are somehow sacred at the least, and at best, are determined by scientific finding to have a "fairness" component to them, unlike the workers compensation rates.
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,590,852 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
The generations that have preceded us have not done a very good job and we are in a HUGE hole right now thanks to many administrations allowing/not handling key issues for this country. Hate to say it but the ones benefiting from all the social programs (ie the Baby Boom Generation) are the ones that did not work to solve the issues we are going to face. They lived high on the success of their parent's generation ignoring the issues passing them onto their children.
"Generations" aren't responsible. You seem to suffer from the delusion that all us minions actually have a say in the matter.

Our economy has been progressively gutted for ~40 years now so a handful of people could get massively wealthy. The "young people" who are now experiencing the brunt of this, who should be out protesting this money grab and getting arrested, do nothing. If they do manage to get upset they merely complain and target the old people. Confuse, divide and conquer.
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:46 AM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,672,422 times
Reputation: 17362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
Very nice post!

The big problem is the young people have a burden like no other generation burdened by failing social programs (social security/Medicare) to support the massive Baby Boom Generation, student loan debt, increased costs of living/decreased wages adjusted for inflation than previous generations, devalued currency, etc..

The generations that have preceded us have not done a very good job and we are in a HUGE hole right now thanks to many administrations allowing/not handling key issues for this country. Hate to say it but the ones benefiting from all the social programs (ie the Baby Boom Generation) are the ones that did not work to solve the issues we are going to face. They lived high on the success of their parent's generation ignoring the issues passing them onto their children.

I don't know how as a younger person we are going to support the Baby Boom Generation along with attempting to have some type of livelihood of our own. Many are putting off having families due to financial restraint. Many are in a "lost" generation as the economic conditions have eroded their prime years in life making having their own families impossible. THis has contributed to destroying the family unit in this country which many believe is the foundation for a nation.

Things are real ugly right now in more than one way and I see it getting a lot worse before it gets better. IF it ever recovers..
You are supporting those who suffer the effects of poverty, you are supporting a huge business driven interventionist military, you support government programs that enrich the rich, you also support all of that which lies to you about the reasons you find yourself at odds with the present day economic structures that favor the wealthy over those who create wealth...

You are drinking the media Kool Aid!! LOOK OVER HERE MIKE, NO NOT THERE---HERE, LOOK AT THE BOOMERS MIKE, THEY'RE EATING YOUR LUNCH MAN...The old generational wars have served the upper class well Mike, but if you were to look elsewhere you just might find a whole lot of people siphoning off the wealth of this nation while putting the benefit in their foreign bank accounts or the pockets of foreign business schemes that undermine the American laboring class..

I'm seventy and I'm tired of being seen as the enemy, I do understand the hardship facing so much of the young, but, in all honesty, things have never been easy or great for the working class in America. My generation has it's share of grief with our economic system, overall we survived and many prospered but we had unions, we had positive labor law, we had a big blue collar workforce, we had small homes and used cars, us or our children didn't all go to universities, many are now old and broke, many died in the wars, and not all is well with my entire generation.

The one class that has seen a fair share of continuity regarding the greatness of America resides in places you don't go, they are educated in schools you can't ever attend, they live a pretty decent lifestyle on the backs of those who did the work that created their wealth, they aren't like you or me, they collectively operate behind the scenes in politics in order that their lofty position is never compromised by those who by all reasoning should share in their wealth, but don't..
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:28 PM
 
6,438 posts, read 6,913,630 times
Reputation: 8743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
Our system has become crazy, we IMPORT EVERYTHING!!
That's why a toaster costs $12 instead of $250. If you're poor, you might care about this.

No one has ever liked living on the minimum wage. It was intended for teenagers and as a stepping stone from absolute poverty to the working class. If you can use a computer and write in English well enough to post on C-D, you can get a job paying double the minimum wage, or better.
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:36 PM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,555,945 times
Reputation: 2207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
That's why a toaster costs $12 instead of $250. If you're poor, you might care about this.

No one has ever liked living on the minimum wage. It was intended for teenagers and as a stepping stone from absolute poverty to the working class. If you can use a computer and write in English well enough to post on C-D, you can get a job paying double the minimum wage, or better.
Really??

Quality is down significantly with almost everything.

Cheaper maybe but way inferior!
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Arizona
3,148 posts, read 2,729,508 times
Reputation: 6062
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Thomas View Post
Higher minimum wage brings jobs and prosperity.
It also causes employers to cut staff.
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Arizona
3,148 posts, read 2,729,508 times
Reputation: 6062
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
"Generations" aren't responsible. You seem to suffer from the delusion that all us minions actually have a say in the matter.

Our economy has been progressively gutted for ~40 years now so a handful of people could get massively wealthy. The "young people" who are now experiencing the brunt of this, who should be out protesting this money grab and getting arrested, do nothing. If they do manage to get upset they merely complain and target the old people. Confuse, divide and conquer.
Who are the handful getting massively wealthy? The "owning class"?

You don't have to be massively rich to buy stocks, bonds and real estate.
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