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Old 10-07-2017, 09:51 AM
 
587 posts, read 305,028 times
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Yeah the one Party government outsourced our jobs.
told us all the ice cap was melting, So we all need to get rid of our cars, our jobs, our Sovereignty accept TPP aka the EU in disguise and flood America with people who hate us ..(COMMUNISM) We need military intervention Not politics and Propaganda

Roll in the National Guard, Unite America
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:59 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
It won't be China that makes that decision. Other countries will need to decide to hold their reserves in renminbi.
Chicken - egg. Egg HAS to come first.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,596,333 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
If I were in business or RE or whatever, I would have no qualms about selling to some foreign entity paying in USD. Only a no-no if the business or commodity is in our national security interest.
If assets in the US are owned by foreign corporations, all profits accruing simply leave the country. It's like a farmer selling off chunks of his land to cover perpetual losses. This is the opposite of what we'd be doing if our goal was prosperity.

Quote:
IMO over time more of the USA will be foreign owned. Almost has to be as for instance China grows up more. And if they properly comply, we here in the the USA will own more of them.
We aren't swimming in Chinese currency, so we won't be reciprocating.

Quote:
We get stuff from overseas much cheaper than produced here. Of course the point of all this. If we only had local producers to rely on, the cost of our goods would be much higher.
NO!!! It is demonstrably obviously NOT the point!

Would you take a 50% pay cut to save 2% on purchases? In round numbers that is what we've done. Relative to per capita GDP, real median wages have been cut in half. Very little of what you spend money on is imported, and the cost savings is a lot less than you presume. Domestic production of most things would be only a little more expensive, if at all. Look at Germany for instance.

Trade isn't the problem anyway, rather the perpetual deficit in trade. Which is forced to happen by design.

The "point" of this "free trade" (it isn't) BS between the US and Japan, China, etc is for the mega rich on both sides of the trade transaction to get even richer and more powerful. US consumers are getting screwed all around.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 1,072,389 times
Reputation: 2759
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I can tell you didn't even read the article. Then you say I'm making things binary. That's pretty funny.
End the wool-over-your-eyes era. Learn what the 95 million number actually means.

Oh, and AEI is a propaganda shop. It was built as one and has always been one. Everything they publish needs to be deconstructed back into unslanted real-world terms.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 1,072,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Chicken - egg. Egg HAS to come first.
Not apropos. The USD has status as "the world's reserve currency" only because so many other nations choose to hold their reserves in that currency. We had no great say in that, and neither will China. It's a bottom-up, crowd-sourcing sort of thing.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:25 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
Not apropos. The USD has status as "the world's reserve currency" only because so many other nations choose to hold their reserves in that currency. We had no great say in that, and neither will China. It's a bottom-up, crowd-sourcing sort of thing.
China's central command will decide if they want to be/own a Reserve, then they will have to create all the Yuan necessary and send it out into the world. Sure there has to be acceptance for it to work. I have no worries about that, but that is just my opinion.

As opposed to say countries or banks saying, "OK China, we'd like X amount of Yuan. Or Y amount of Yuan based debt." Of course some might, but the Yuan has to be first created. Similar to what we have done the past 200+ years. Except I suspect China will do it more like our Fed.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
1,387 posts, read 1,072,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
If assets in the US are owned by foreign corporations, all profits accruing simply leave the country.
After being converted to the other country's currency. Meanwhile, the output of foreign-owned facilities in the US is part of US GDP.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:37 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
If assets in the US are owned by foreign corporations, all profits accruing simply leave the country. It's like a farmer selling off chunks of his land to cover perpetual losses. This is the opposite of what we'd be doing if our goal was prosperity.
Some money is bound to leave. Some will come. This is trade. If we want more jobs vs cheap we send less. Wages and prices will have to rise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
We aren't swimming in Chinese currency, so we won't be reciprocating.
Their economy is not yet ripe for this. But we do not want Yuan in general. We deal in USD and that is still the law of the land and the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Would you take a 50% pay cut to save 2% on purchases? In round numbers that is what we've done. Relative to per capita GDP, real median wages have been cut in half. Very little of what you spend money on is imported, and the cost savings is a lot less than you presume. Domestic production of most things would be only a little more expensive, if at all. Look at Germany for instance.
The above is very dependent on what you do, when and where. For me as a doc I take it as it is. For someone trying to make ends meet in some post-industrial rural area, they would not be happy. We need to find them a solution, and IMO the solution should not be inflationary. If we somehow decide to eliminate imports, then it will have to be rampant. At least a decade of chaos for all but us rich, and after that is not clear how much the post-industrial laggers will benefit. Of course the rich will stay rich.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:44 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,474,425 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17thAndK View Post
After being converted to the other country's currency. Meanwhile, the output of foreign-owned facilities in the US is part of US GDP.
USD's can be converted to USD based debt.
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Old 10-07-2017, 05:54 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,223,977 times
Reputation: 29354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
However, the annual interest on the national debt would easily fund over half of our military budget, and I don't know of anyone who thinks that is "money well spent." .
I do. The people receiving that interest as income. One third of our national debt is owned by foreign sources, a number that is way too high, but also means that two thirds is domestic owned. Think for a moment, if the US were to declare default and void the national debt, who would be instantly and directly affected?

What people overlook is that expense and income are opposite views of the same transaction. Most everyone thinks that "cutting spending" is a good thing whether it's an individual, a business, or a government. The same people would likely consider "cutting incomes" as a bad thing but in fact it's the same thing. The income you earn is an expense for someone. The money you spend becomes income for someone. The "wasteful" interest we pay on debt is a valuable source of income for someone else. That is "consumerism".

I'm not saying that excessive spending and high debt loads are the best course of action or that more efficient allocation of resources doesn't matter but the bottom line for the economy as a whole comes down to aggregate productivity. Do something, anything, that is productive. That's why wars and government spending programs kickstart economies. It forces economic activity and productivity.

It's also about keeping the economic activity within our economy. The trade deficit is a bigger threat than the national debt. That effectively exports domestic productivity to foreign countries with foreign citizens working jobs and earning incomes, indirectly but effective from our economy.
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