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Hello everybody,
What exactly does "working class" mean?Does it mean people who work for a living?Or does it mean people that did not go to college and work blue collar jobs?Can it mean both?Thanks in advance.
I believe it was only recently invented. As a kid there were the poor, the middle class and the rich. Everyone I knew growing up worked.
Frankly, I see it most often used among people with high paying white collar jobs putting themselves in upper middle class, to distinguish it from poorer blue collar or lower service workers labeled as working class. It's sad to see locally people trying to firm up class systems. A sad human trait follows. Put others down to feel more important.
In response, people associated with the group of disdain responded by rallying and becoming proud members of it, sneering off the elitist prigs who are failed Alphas. Be a proud Beta instead.
The reality is we all have strong and weak points. The characterization change marks the shift from a time when it was important to have breadwinners have stable jobs to a distinguishable label for people who have high income jobs vs low income jobs.
In reality, most people are middle class. Terms that actually make sense would be:
Poor - People that cannot survive without assistance from others.
Middle Class - People that work for others in some way or fashion for their survival.
Rich - People who own the work of others for their survival.
Frankly, if you need that stable check coming systemically...regardless of whether a company does good or bad. Regardless of whether or not your efforts worked as planned or not....you're working class. Most of us are.
Working class are those with limited skill/education/ability unable to earn/do better than workmans wages.
A physician doesn't meet that standard (even if some sort of martyr or indebted up to his eyeballs).
Wrong. They are employed....AND working class. You can be part of the working class...and out of work.
People get laid off, fired, etc. They are not all of a sudden not part of the working class. They work, exert their own labor/skills....for pay.
Working class does NOT mean "limited skills". It means that you are being paid for YOUR labor. A physician absolutely falls into that category.
Wrong. They are employed....AND working class. You can be part of the working class...and out of work.
People get laid off, fired, etc. They are not all of a sudden not part of the working class. They work, exert their own labor/skills....for pay.
Working class does NOT mean "limited skills". It means that you are being paid for YOUR labor. A physician absolutely falls into that category.
It is interesting that people keep saying this.
Can you cite me a legitimate mainstream source that considers doctors to be working class people? Is the United States President also a working class person? What about Bill Gates?
Can you cite me a legitimate mainstream source that considers doctors to be working class people? Is the United States President also a working class person? What about Bill Gates?
I have never heard this.
You're confusing popular usage with the search for meaningful definition in this thread.
If "working class" means, basically, those who can't afford to miss a paycheck (which is the core of many of the suggested definitions so far), it doesn't really matter whether that's a $1k factory paycheck or a $15k physician's paycheck.
Of course. How could you possibly exclude them? They are getting paid for their labor. That is EXACTLY what working class is.
Well, no, the concept of "professional class" does have meaning in this respect. Doctors and lawyers and such may work hard and may even be paid by the hour, but for the most part they labor at their own will (set their own hours) and set their own prices for the use of their skills.
I would stipulate that one of the characteristics of the "working class" is that they cannot set the price of their labor--they work for whatever the employer will pay them.
Well, no, the concept of "professional class" does have meaning in this respect. Doctors and lawyers and such may work hard and may even be paid by the hour, but for the most part they labor at their own will (set their own hours) and set their own prices for the use of their skills.
I would stipulate that one of the characteristics of the "working class" is that they cannot set the price of their labor--they work for whatever the employer will pay them.
I disagree. They are being paid for their own labor. I have a good friend that is an ER doctor...she certainly does not set her own prices, LOL. And she needs every cent - 3 kids in boarding school and one in college. Doctors are absolutely working class.
Can you cite me a legitimate mainstream source that considers doctors to be working class people? Is the United States President also a working class person? What about Bill Gates?
I have never heard this.
Bill Gates does not actually receive wages. He lives off of his investments. And he is giving away most of what he has. Trump certainly lives off his investments. If one does not need a salary or wages to live, then no, they are not working class. They are financially independent.
That said, obviously there are different views of this - reading through this thread it's clear that there is no one definition. I will concede that.
Here at Gallup, we measure subjective social class by asking survey respondents to place themselves in one of a list of five classes: upper class, upper-middle class, middle class, working class and lower class.
Most Americans -- more than seven in 10 in the latest update -- put themselves into the "middle" (40%) or "working" (31%) class. Another 11% identified as "lower" class, 15% as "upper-middle" and 2% as "upper."
"Americans' resonance with the label 'working class' is not as substantial as might have been expected, even for those without college degrees."
Why might this be the case? A new analysis provides at least a partial explanation. Many older Americans who are retired -- presumably no matter what their occupations or income were earlier in their lives -- seem to be hesitant to describe themselves as working class since, in a literal sense, they are no longer working. To be specific, 35% of nonretired Americans classify themselves as working class, almost as many as identify as middle class. Among nonretired Americans, by contrast, only 15% identify as working class, while 56% say they are middle class.
It's not just that retired people have lower incomes and lower levels of education than those who are not retired. At all levels of education and income, those who are retired are significantly less likely to choose the label "working class" than those who are not retired. For example, among those with an income less than $30,000 a year, 42% of those not retired use the label working class, compared with 21% of those who are retired.
But the fact that retirees are much less likely than those who are not retired to say they are working class -- regardless of their actual income and education -- suggests that for some, working class is a more literal label; namely, an indication that one is working. When not working, some people obviously think they can't choose that label to describe themselves, regardless of their actual income and education or where they stand in the socioeconomic hierarchy.
Working class is the only subjective social class label in Gallup's list that is specific about what one does, different from the other modifiers -- upper, middle, lower -- that are explicitly hierarchical adjectives. This could sow confusion in the minds of some of those attempting to place themselves into these social class categories.
This suggests that researchers, including those of us here at Gallup, should consider using a subjective social class scale that consists of similar hierarchical adjectives -- lower, middle and upper -- without inserting "working" into the mix.
politicians and others may recognize that when addressing older groups, middle class is a much more appropriate designator than working class if they intend to resonate with as many people in the audience as possible. And, when addressing those who are not retired -- the bulk of Americans -- using working class as a label for those not at the extremes of the social class hierarchy may be as appropriate as the use of middle class.
Last edited by ChessieMom; 05-04-2019 at 02:22 PM..
Well, no, the concept of "professional class" does have meaning in this respect. Doctors and lawyers and such may work hard and may even be paid by the hour, but for the most part they labor at their own will (set their own hours) and set their own prices for the use of their skills.
The key distinction about most doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, writers and so forth, is that their labor is both intellectual and creative. That is, they solve problems in a meaningful and insightful way. They make diagnoses, offer legal arguments, derive and solve equations, write new literature. To be sure, some doctors effective do nursing, and some lawyers effectively just perform administrative services. Setting broken bones or filing delaying-motions are probably not higher-end intellectual functions. But many doctors do research in cancer-treatment, and many lawyers write groundbreaking opinions on constitutional law. Many engineers conduct research on new measurement-techniques, new chemical reactions or materials-processing or machine-learning.
The sort of work that advances the human species as a whole, that ennobles us as a pertly inquisitive and contemplative lot - that, while still being "work", is hardly indicative of being working-class. Phrased alternatively, to be a professional, in the truest sense, means a systematic and forceful way to taking one's mind where other minds haven't yet been... which is the very antithesis of "working class".
Bill Gates does not actually receive wages. He lives off of his investments. And he is giving away most of what he has. Trump certainly lives off his investments. If one does not need a salary or wages to live, then no, they are not working class. They are financially independent.
But they certainly work though.
I heard that Trump works up to 19 hours a day. I'm not arguing about this. It's just what I read.
Why would a person work so many hours day at 70+ years of age when they could just relax on the beach for the rest of their lives without a care in the world? It's an interesting philosophical question.
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They work, exert their own labor/skills....for pay. 
