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Old 04-18-2020, 08:28 PM
 
30,181 posts, read 11,815,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I pay less taxes today than during the Reagan era. When do you see federal taxes rising to pay off national debt?
Federal, state, sales taxes, gas taxes. They are all going up. States are going to have big budget deficits due to people being sidelined for months. States with tolls are not getting much of that money. There are endless of examples of various taxing authorities getting less or no money coming in.

Or services will have to be slashed at a time when more people need help since the Great Depression.
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Old 04-18-2020, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,646 posts, read 9,472,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
The stimulus is largely a reallocation of existing wealth from those who have a lot of it to those who have much less of it (or are negative) in a multi-temporal model. Adding digits to your bank account today will be paid by me and other VHNWI & UHNWI tomorrow in the form of extraordinary tax increases.
Wait, you consider yourself HNW but aren’t aware of the vast number of vehicles you can park your money and assets in order to reduce your taxes? You don’t have an accountant or tax advisor?
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Old 04-18-2020, 10:09 PM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
Federal, state, sales taxes, gas taxes. They are all going up. States are going to have big budget deficits due to people being sidelined for months. States with tolls are not getting much of that money. There are endless of examples of various taxing authorities getting less or no money coming in.

Or services will have to be slashed at a time when more people need help since the Great Depression.
Federal taxes can pay off Federal debt. I don't see those going up anytime soon, especially with our current crisis. We've never had a federal tax for the express purpose of paying off federal debt.
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Old 04-18-2020, 10:40 PM
 
30,181 posts, read 11,815,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Federal taxes can pay off Federal debt. I don't see those going up anytime soon, especially with our current crisis. We've never had a federal tax for the express purpose of paying off federal debt.

On a state and local level that will have to happen. On a federal level we won't be paying off the debt just trying to keep the yearly deficits from going totally out of control. Whatever purpose stated will simply be politics. Perhaps not everyone but top earners will probably get hit. And I am a Libertarian, opposed to almost all tax increases. I just assume this will happen regardless of the fact its bad timing with the current crisis.
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Old 04-19-2020, 05:14 AM
 
18,549 posts, read 15,596,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
We've just started one round of "stimulus" checks and this is likely just the beginning. Can someone explain to me how creating more digits and injecting them into people's bank accounts is supposed to increase prosperity? These digits have no value whatsoever, except when they are spent into circulation, which steals purchasing power from all the other digits. This is theft, we're all going to steal from each other, and that's supposed to make us all richer? If this worked, shouldn't Zimbabwe be on top of the world? All this is, is a massive tax/punishment on prudent cash savers to bail out the financially reckless.
I agree. If we inject 3 Trillion dollars on top of an MZM money supply of about 16 Trillion, that will cause about a 15% drop in purchasing power of the dollar but its effects may be drawn out over a 3-year period or so because they won’t fully manifest until the velocity of money returns to that of a “normal” economy. Spreading that number out, we might expect about an extra 5% of annual inflation, so the inflation rate might go up from 2% p.a. to 7% p.a. , give or take. That would still be well below the high inflation of the 1973-1980 oil crisis years, which had double digit annual inflation.
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Old 04-19-2020, 08:06 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
On a state and local level that will have to happen. On a federal level we won't be paying off the debt just trying to keep the yearly deficits from going totally out of control. Whatever purpose stated will simply be politics. Perhaps not everyone but top earners will probably get hit. And I am a Libertarian, opposed to almost all tax increases. I just assume this will happen regardless of the fact its bad timing with the current crisis.
Of course State and local gov't and taxes have nothing to do with our national debt.

I've been studying modern fiat and oppose any federal tax increase as well. And as more lately 'we are all MMT'ers now', I see no plan with increasing federal taxes to pay down our national debt.
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Old 04-19-2020, 08:14 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
I agree. If we inject 3 Trillion dollars on top of an MZM money supply of about 16 Trillion, that will cause about a 15% drop in purchasing power of the dollar but its effects may be drawn out over a 3-year period or so because they won’t fully manifest until the velocity of money returns to that of a “normal” economy. Spreading that number out, we might expect about an extra 5% of annual inflation, so the inflation rate might go up from 2% p.a. to 7% p.a. , give or take. That would still be well below the high inflation of the 1973-1980 oil crisis years, which had double digit annual inflation.
Very crude, but I agree that coming out of our virus dilemma we will see more inflation. Not hyper.

But looking at your MZM, doubled in the last 10 years, has our dollar lost that much purchasing power?
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Old 04-19-2020, 09:04 AM
 
3,786 posts, read 5,334,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsuperfly View Post
It's cute that you believe there is one particular party that is to blame.
And it's cute that you don't believe that that one particular party, the party of Bernie, AOC, Ilhan, and etc., isn't the most likely suspect for taking the country farther down into the financial black hole.

The other party used to be more fiscally conservative. But of late, both parties are taking the drunken-sailor pathway seeing as how we have reached a tipping point. It's all FREE!!!! Money grows on trees!!!!!! The Candyman is back!!!!!!

The problem is that Trump is a closet Dem. He financially supported the Clintons, amongst other sins. And this is an election year so he was quick to helicopter money all over.

I don't have a problem with Democrats being Democrats and Republicans being Republicans. It is the lying mainstream media that is overwhelmingly liberal (> 90%), and who no longer report the news but attempt to make the news and sway public opinion. The media (means "middle") should be reporting the facts fairly to both sides, not just your party.
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Old 04-19-2020, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities
2,389 posts, read 2,343,092 times
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Force China to cancel our debt, cut foreign aid and you won't have to worry about this country going into a financial black hole.

Fiscal conservatism and libertarianism are yesterday's news. In a country with over 300 million and nearly 4 million square miles, limited govt ideals are counter intuitive.
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Old 04-19-2020, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,218 posts, read 2,460,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Very crude, but I agree that coming out of our virus dilemma we will see more inflation. Not hyper.

But looking at your MZM, doubled in the last 10 years, has our dollar lost that much purchasing power?
Hyperinflation is a real possibility. In fact it's the most likely outcome.

And the dollar has certainly lost lots of purchasing power. Why do you think most millennials can't afford to purchase a home? Why are the majority of Americans living essentially paycheck to paycheck?
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