Is the American Work Ethic Dying? (contract, Florida, Reno, contractor)
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NO kidding , you are another that thinks me and others like me think things are free .
Some of the people on this forum I swear ....
NOBODY thinks things are free - I know how they pay for them , I am not stupid . I did not mind being taxed at all for services like we got. It sure beat the system here. So go try to show someone else up,it wont work with me lol .
You just wrote that giant manifesto for nothing . I would much rather pay taxes and get it back in services and a 30 days of double paid vacation and seriously good and accessible healthcare . The services provided blow the states out of the water and no , its none of your business why I do not or cannot at the moment go back .
You just neglected to include it in your original post. Now explain how you're going to get that kind of funding out of the 50% of Americans that currently pay no income taxes, and in fact many get money back through either child tax credits, earned income credits or lately, stimulus payments.
Yes, the American work ethic is dying. Even liberals like Bill Maher have admitted this (pre-Biden). When talking about Bernie Sanders he said:
"Let's not romanticize socialism the way conservatives romanticize capitalism. These are economic systems, not your first kiss.....
....For Millennials, the word 'socialism' doesn't conjure up images of Stalin and Castro. It conjures up images of naked Danish people on a month long vacation. Millennials don't remember a threatening Soviet Union, or any Soviet Union....
....So, the new generation is ready for socialism. Problem is, they may be ready for a little too much socialism. Almost 2/3 of Sanders voters want free college and free universal health coverage for no more than an extra thousand dollars in taxes, even though that's not really socialism. That's santa-ism.
And look, no one is arguing that Millennials haven't gotten a rotten deal in this economy, but they've also gotten too used to getting sh*t for free."
Yes, the American work ethic is dying. Even liberals like Bill Maher have admitted this (pre-Biden). When talking about Bernie Sanders he said:
"Let's not romanticize socialism the way conservatives romanticize capitalism. These are economic systems, not your first kiss.....
....For Millennials, the word 'socialism' doesn't conjure up images of Stalin and Castro. It conjures up images of naked Danish people on a month long vacation. Millennials don't remember a threatening Soviet Union, or any Soviet Union....
....So, the new generation is ready for socialism. Problem is, they may be ready for a little too much socialism. Almost 2/3 of Sanders voters want free college and free universal health coverage for no more than an extra thousand dollars in taxes, even though that's not really socialism. That's santa-ism.
And look, no one is arguing that Millennials haven't gotten a rotten deal in this economy, but they've also gotten too used to getting sh*t for free."
I disagree with most of that it's mostly finger pointing and excuse making.
That said your point about service industry jobs needs to called out. Service industry jobs are odd hours due to the nature of the work - maybe you can figure out how to run a bar with 8-5 hours. Also to a great degree SI workers are treated poorly because they are overwhelmingly not drug tested and users working in SI jobs have almost no good alternatives.
I have worked in the service industry for 18 years and I find that last comment highly offensive. Some people work in that industry because they like certain aspects of it like the flexibility, getting paid cash every time you work, and some do it because they end up stuck in it
I’m a mix of the two. Ive always like being able to take my money home with me every day but that is becoming more and more rare as it seems most restaurants now issue paychecks for credit card tips, removing essentially the one good thing about that job. It can be very easy to get stuck in this industry. You start a job somewhere where you make good money, have good clientele and like the people you work with, so you work more because you make more money but then you start to realize how that is affecting the rest of your life. You never get to spend holidays with family because holidays are blackout dates for time off. I was literally fired once for arguing about having the week of Christmas off to go visit my family in another state, despite having already had the discussion and being approved for it months before, which was all on record. But the management changed and the new gm refused to abide by it and told me to drop it or else. I told him I would drop it because I was not going to show up for any shift he tried to schedule me for during that week. So he fired me then on the spot—two days before thanksgiving. I had worked there for two years and never caused any trouble or argued with anyone, and I was the source of 60% of their positive feedback online—didn’t matter.
But because you have to sacrifice so much of your life outside work, you have to put off things like finishing school because it becomes too difficult to study, attend class, and still be able to work the shifts you need to, either for your own financial need or because many places have certain shifts they require people to work.
I was sick of it so I was going to finish emt school in 2020 anyway. I had a tentative schedule plotted but if they ever would have given me a hint or trouble over it I would have walked out the door. Thankfully the pandemic hit and I was able to take over a year off to get ready for school, pay off debt, and actually enjoy my life for once.
I tried to get another service job since our governor decided to cut off our benefits to help his big business buddies and funnel that money to the stupid racist border wall, but I was already getting annoyed with the stupid little rules and unnecessary demands on me and on my life. Then i tested positive for Covid. Which would not have happened had I not returned to work. Luckily I’m vaccinated so it has been only mild symptoms but still. **** that.
I honestly don’t intend to go back to work until it is as an emt. I’ll get a job just long enough to qualify for regular unemployment benefits then get fired. I’ll try to get some extra financial aid, or rent relief or something that will allow me to only focus on school.
So I think for many, like me, it’s not that there’s a lack of work ethic it’s that we don’t have work ethic for stuff we don’t care about. Stuff that doesn’t matter and that keeps you a slave to misery for pittance wages. The thought of working in a restaurant or anything makes me physically ill. But re thought of being a paramedic makes me wish I could start tomorrow. It’s all about context and viewpoint.
Do you have a source for the Sanders voters statement? I'd like the context.
I love bill Maher and I’m pretty liberal. I agree with him most of the time even with some of his less popular opinions that he gets flak from the far left for. I don’t disagree with much of what he said here.
And for the record, I don’t think an extra thousand dollars in taxes would do it. What would do it is:
1. Government keeps all tax revenue. No more refunds for anyone. That money is used for services
2: progressive tax rates. If you make over $500,000 a year, you need to pay 20% tax and no write offs or loopholes. If you make over one million, 25%. If you’re worth more than 100 million dollars, you pay 90%. No one should have that much money while people are starving and homeless and uninsured. Over a billion? 95%. No one can spend one billion dollars in one lifetime. If you have that money you owe it to society to use it for good by funding schools, healthcare, food benefits, and housing.
3. Cut the defense budget. Period. End all those wars we don’t belong in. Stop giving the military a blank check. cut it by 40%
4. Stop foreign aid to rich nations and human rights abusers. We send too much money to Israel, Saudi Arabia, China. But keep foreign aid to the developing world and our payments to nato, the United Nations and The Who. Continue food and medical aid to Africa.
5. Cut congressional and presidential pay. Those people are already rich they don’t need salaries.
Yes, the American work ethic is dying. Even liberals like Bill Maher have admitted this (pre-Biden). When talking about Bernie Sanders he said:
"Let's not romanticize socialism the way conservatives romanticize capitalism. These are economic systems, not your first kiss.....
....For Millennials, the word 'socialism' doesn't conjure up images of Stalin and Castro. It conjures up images of naked Danish people on a month long vacation. Millennials don't remember a threatening Soviet Union, or any Soviet Union....
....So, the new generation is ready for socialism. Problem is, they may be ready for a little too much socialism. Almost 2/3 of Sanders voters want free college and free universal health coverage for no more than an extra thousand dollars in taxes, even though that's not really socialism. That's santa-ism.
And look, no one is arguing that Millennials haven't gotten a rotten deal in this economy, but they've also gotten too used to getting sh*t for free."
I wonder if any of the proponents of socialism realized that it did not mean "free life?" or an excuse for laziness? One of the core tenets of Soviet socialism was the dignity of and respect for labor. The goal was for everyone to do some kind of labor in order to eventually phase out class.
"From each according to their ability" did not mean you got to sit all around all day collecting free everything.
E.g.: education in the USSR was free. But they tested you, then THEY told YOU what your aptitude was. It didn't matter what you "wanted," it mattered what you were capable of. If you were capable of being a scientist, you were expected to work to the best of your ability contributing to the scientific advancement of the state. If you were only capable of being a farmer, same expectation - contribute everything you can to the agriculture of the state.
I had an older student one time who grew up in the old USSR. He had interesting comments about how things worked there. He said that their schools worked better because they were not "politically correct" like ours. That was the phrase he used, but I don't think he meant it like Americans mean PC. He meant it as in, it was sink or swim and they didn't coddle people. If you smart enough to be doctor, you got pushed into being a doctor. Didn't matter if you were a woman, minority from the provinces, whatever. If you were not smart enough to be doctor or whatever other fields require advanced education, you failed and they put you into some other program. If you failed out of those, you became a farmer or general laborer but were guaranteed a job, basic health care and a place to live. He liked the honesty of it all.
Last edited by redguard57; 07-04-2021 at 05:41 PM..
I love bill Maher and I’m pretty liberal. I agree with him most of the time even with some of his less popular opinions that he gets flak from the far left for. I don’t disagree with much of what he said here.
And for the record, I don’t think an extra thousand dollars in taxes would do it. What would do it is:
1. Government keeps all tax revenue. No more refunds for anyone. That money is used for services
2: progressive tax rates. If you make over $500,000 a year, you need to pay 20% tax and no write offs or loopholes. If you make over one million, 25%. If you’re worth more than 100 million dollars, you pay 90%. No one should have that much money while people are starving and homeless and uninsured. Over a billion? 95%. No one can spend one billion dollars in one lifetime. If you have that money you owe it to society to use it for good by funding schools, healthcare, food benefits, and housing.
3. Cut the defense budget. Period. End all those wars we don’t belong in. Stop giving the military a blank check. cut it by 40%
4. Stop foreign aid to rich nations and human rights abusers. We send too much money to Israel, Saudi Arabia, China. But keep foreign aid to the developing world and our payments to nato, the United Nations and The Who. Continue food and medical aid to Africa.
5. Cut congressional and presidential pay. Those people are already rich they don’t need salaries.
I agree with all of them except the bolded. I think they should get paid more. Congressmembers have not had a raise since the early-00s, the salaries are starting to not even be enough to afford housing in DC area. Should also increase the salaries of staff, since they do most of the work anyway.
If we don't pay them decently, then we will only get people with pre-existing wealth to run for congress. I want people from the working and middle classes to run for congress, and to do so for better reasons than just wanting to get enough experience to cash in as a lobbyist.
I don't know, there was a time of work ethic in this country, long ago. It seems as if when the US economy shifted from agriculture to manufacturing/industrial there was a change. Family farms taught certain lessons. Everyone had responsibilities. If you didn't do your job, either the family directly or your livestock felt it.
Going back further in time to the early 1800s, even more so. You could starve if you slacked off at the beginning of the planting season or even into the coming winter if you didn't lay enough by to get through it. The weather, etc. could ruin everything even if you did it all right. They were always working to overcome that. In the cities, artisans, people who made tools out of wood, iron, etc. were striving to make the best product to compete and there was pride in the output that proved mastery of their craft. Sure there were schemers and crooks as always, small potatoes in general
Then the great wave of immigrants came in the 1880s. It was an incredible gift of food security. In the old countries owning land was impossible for them where they often starved. They worked this land feeling rich. As the cities grew in the early 1900s the generation that had risked it all to immigrate and own land, watched heartbroken as their children moved to the cities and an easier, more modern way of life of convenience.
Now the corporations were being born and growing fast. Robber barons sprang up like weeds.
I agree work ethic decayed when people left farms and moved to the factories. But that's because many of those farmers were working for themselves. How many factories do you need? Very few, so 99% of people working in manufacturing are employees with limited upside. That's why work ethic withered.
Skilled trades have long been pretty flaky in my part of Florida. We got ghosted by four different GCs in 2019 when we were trying to get quotes to remodel the bathrooms. Guess they were still making too much money on Hurricane Michael recovery work then to return our calls. We gave up at that point and said ‘let’s try again in 2020’ and now target bathroom reno date has become 2022.
The issue is being a skilled tradesman or general contractor is hard work. It requires a work ethic, a good bit of knowledge and scientific and mathematical ability, and isn't something that many are willing or capable of doing. As such, they are in high demand, and have more work than they can handle in many cases. In my area, most GCs are 2 years or more out for new construction. I understand the aggravation, but also understand why they are sometimes slow in returning calls.
The issue is being a skilled tradesman or general contractor is hard work. It requires a work ethic, a good bit of knowledge and scientific and mathematical ability, and isn't something that many are willing or capable of doing. As such, they are in high demand, and have more work than they can handle in many cases. In my area, most GCs are 2 years or more out for new construction. I understand the aggravation, but also understand why they are sometimes slow in returning calls.
Also good health and dexterity.
I have a GREAT general contractor and he admitted to me it's getting a lot harder to do the job now that he's getting into his upper 40s. Feeling a lot more pain than he did 10 or even 5 years ago. He doesn't think he's got that many more years left and is making money while he can.
Happened to an auto mechanic I liked too. As he started to get older his work declined in quality because he just couldn't do it as fast anymore.
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