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Well, that would have left me out, then. I quit high school in 11th grade. Got my GED a few years after that, and started back to school at age 26. I graduated from a very good University at age 34 with a degree in occupational therapy. I paid off student loans until I was 45.
So if we went by your plan, I'd be working some dead end McJob for the rest of my life, because mistakes made in high school should follow you your whole life...is that about right?
What was the maximum amount of your loans? I'll bet it wasn't much compared to the outlandish amounts we often see today to get a degree in flower arranging or something similarly worthless.
Also, your degree was in a field (occupational therapy) that should have a high likelihood of gainful employment and good salary, thereby enabling you to repay the loans with relative ease. The same can't be said for many of the student loans given out today for fields with little to no demand and low pay even if you are lucky enough to find a job in that field.
We need a rating/evaluation system for student loans.
What was the maximum amount of your loans? I'll bet it wasn't much compared to the outlandish amounts we often see today to get a degree in flower arranging or something similarly worthless.
Also, your degree was in a field (occupational therapy) that should have a high likelihood of gainful employment and good salary, thereby enabling you to repay the loans with relative ease. The same can't be said for many of the student loans given out today for fields with little to no demand and low pay even if you are lucky enough to find a job in that field.
We need a rating/evaluation system for student loans.
It was much less than the same degree costs today. When I went it was $16,000 a year. Now it's $42,000 a year, and they raised the requirements from a bachelor's to a masters. Salaries are actually lower today than they were 15 years ago. This is the problem, the massive increase in costs, not that people aren't picking the right majors.
It was much less than the same degree costs today. When I went it was $16,000 a year. Now it's $42,000 a year, and they raised the requirements from a bachelor's to a masters. Salaries are actually lower today than they were 15 years ago. This is the problem, the massive increase in costs, not that people aren't picking the right majors.
You keep repeating this. It also takes a bit more to run a program and teach in it. Your salaries are lower. Not across the board in OT.
You keep repeating this. It also takes a bit more to run a program and teach in it. Your salaries are lower. Not across the board in OT.
I was asked about it by the previous poster. It doesn't cost 3 times as much to run and teach in the program now than it did then, how would it? And the new requirement for a Masters increases costs way more because graduate school is expensive with very limited financial aide. There is no salary difference at all for an OT with a Masters vs an OT with a bacehlors (just like there is no salary difference between a PT with a Bachelors (one of my old bosses), Masters or Doctorate, which is what PT now requires. The extra courses are all theoretical, it would only make a difference for someone going into research. Salaries are lower in any field of OT that works with Medicare patients, including nursing homes, rehabs, hospitals, outpatient and home health. Early intervention birth-3) still pays very well, and probably the highest paid OT setting (but i was never a baby person and not comfortable handling medically fragile infants).
The problem with posts like this is that it blatantly ignores facts and uses hyperbole to make a moot point. How many people are getting a degree in "flower arranging"? At which institution(s) is this even a degree one can obtain? Can you even answer that without using Google, since you seem so confident?
A big source of the student loan debt problem as it stands today is coming from people who couldn't finish their degree for one reason or another. Another big source of the problem is coming from graduates from programs that were exceptionally expensive. Private for-profit schools, art institutions, etc. And last but not least are people who got a degree but who don't know how to make use of it, likely because of their lower class upbringing and lack of resources.
I don't think the brunt of the 26,000,000 people who applied for loan forgiveness are "flower arranging" majors. Sorry to burst your bubble.
If you'll read my post carefully, you'll see that I was complimenting OCNJGirl for choosing a field (occupational therapy) that is in demand. My reference to "flower arranging" was simply a reference to ANY "fluff" type major that requires little intelligence and little work to obtain a degree. Job opportunities with that degree are reflected in the low demand and low pay for "flower arranging" degrees. Feel free to substitute any other low quality degree for "flower arranging".
Sorry to burst YOUR bubble. Also sorry to see that you disparage those of "lower class upbringing". What is that supposed to mean? Are you of "high class upbringing"? Does that make you better than those who grew up with only very modest means? Your board name may be "Modest", but your post doesn't seem to fit the board name.
If you look at what income stats by major we have, this is what you find (for bachelor degrees):
1) There are about 700 majors on offer by the higher ed sector. Many of these are different names for similar things, so in reality about 300ish majors you can choose from.
2) The income an unemployment stats show that the top 10-15% do pretty well. Early career salaries averaging 65-90k, mid-late career 90-140k, and sub 2% unemployment rates. These are mostly engineering variants and certain tech or computer specialties.
3) The bottom 10-15% are made up largely of theology variants and vocational 2 year degrees gussed up as bachelor degrees, e.g. "recreation management" read "scuba instructor." Some high risk high reward arts programs are there e.g. voice & opera - you will either make it big or never ever get a job at that kind of thing. Not much in between. They start in the high 30s and end around 60ish, with u/e rates of 6-10%. But even the absolute worst degrees perform better economically than the median high school graduate.
3) The vast majority of degrees are in the middle of a densely packed bell curve. Making about 50k to start, about 90-100k mid late career, 2.5-5.5% u/e rates. They are all pretty similar.
E.g. the difference betqeen what Mathematics majors earn and what English Literature majors earn is about 8k a year. They are on opposite sides of the bell. Math is around #130/700, English Lit is something like #400/700. One is STEM, one is just advanced reading & writing. But a measley 8k/yr separates them, illustrating how minor the differences are within the bell. Over a career that adds up but is still not THAT significant of a difference. They're both still middle class.
What's changed is the recent exponential increase in cost of getting ANY degree. I don't think their relative value vis-a-vis each other has changed much since we invented these majors. What's changed is what the middle class salaries they earn can buy you. Getting a degree to earn 53k to start was okay when the degree cost you 20k in debt and a starter house was 180k. It's a bigger problem whem the degree gets you a 62k job to start, but the debt load for the degree was 60k and starter houses are 500k.
Last edited by redguard57; 12-22-2022 at 09:11 PM..
If you look at what income stats by major we have, this is what you find (for bachelor degrees):
1) There are about 700 majors on offer by the higher ed sector. Many of these are different names for similar things, so in reality about 300ish majors you can choose from.
2) The income an unemployment stats show that the top 10-15% do pretty well. Early career salaries averaging 65-90k, mid-late career 90-140k, and sub 2% unemployment rates. These are mostly engineering variants and certain tech or computer specialties.
3) The bottom 10-15% are made up largely of theology variants and vocational 2 year degrees gussed up as bachelor degrees, e.g. "recreation management" read "scuba instructor." Some high risk high reward arts programs are there e.g. voice & opera - you will either make it big or never ever get a job at that kind of thing. Not much in between. They start in the high 30s and end around 60ish, with u/e rates of 6-10%. But even the absolute worst degrees perform better economically than the median high school graduate.
3) The vast majority of degrees are in the middle of a densely packed bell curve. Making about 50k to start, about 90-100k mid late career, 2.5-5.5% u/e rates. They are all pretty similar.
E.g. the difference betqeen what Mathematics majors earn and what English Literature majors earn is about 8k a year. They are on opposite sides of the bell. Math is around #130/700, English Lit is something like #400/700. One is STEM, one is just advanced reading & writing. But a measley 8k/yr separates them, illustrating how minor the differences are within the bell. Over a career that adds up but is still not THAT significant of a difference. They're both still middle class.
What's changed is the recent exponential increase in cost of getting ANY degree. I don't think their relative value vis-a-vis each other has changed much since we invented these majors. What's changed is what the middle class salaries they earn can buy you. Getting a degree to earn 53k to start was okay when the degree cost you 20k in debt and a starter house was 180k. It's a bigger problem whem the degree gets you a 62k job to start, but the debt load for the degree was 60k and starter houses are 500k.
Right, These colleges are charging way too much when you compare what it costs verses the actual salary someone can make with one. The cost for college is outrageous, it has been for the last 20 years when my son went for three quarters at the art institute in Philly, taking computer animation. I'm so thankful he dropped out when he did. It cost about $20k.
We made sure we paid his loan and the parent plus loan, throwing extra cash to it whenever we could. That's part of the problem with kids today, they get out, then they're hit with the payment amount reality, which is more then they thought they would be paying. They then make some bad decisions to where the loan amount quickly grows due to the interest. Next thing they know, that $40k degree is now costing $120k.
A lot needs to be done to stop students taking on so much debt when a good amount of them were clueless about the amount their degree would cost, thy were more concerned with getting into whatever college because they were entitled to it. Everyone has to go to college if you want a job these days...
One woman I knew about 20 years ago, was about $200k in debt from getting two degrees. She already had a student loan in default when she decided to switch majors to get a degree to read autopsies. I don't recall what the first degree was. Someone like her should not be able to take out another student loan with the first one in default.
I don't know what the answer is to fix the many issues, from what college costs, the amount of jobs needing some sort of college degree, even when working a car rental counter which is laughable.
I just hope that if student loans ever come out of being paused that the students get with it to pay their debt. I'm not so sure that Biden will unpause them. I think he may leave it paused until the next President comes in to deal with it...
Well, that would have left me out, then. I quit high school in 11th grade. Got my GED a few years after that, and started back to school at age 26. I graduated from a very good University at age 34 with a degree in occupational therapy. I paid off student loans until I was 45.
So if we went by your plan, I'd be working some dead end McJob for the rest of my life, because mistakes made in high school should follow you your whole life...is that about right?
Once again, you do not understand the topic.
When you decided to go back to school at age 26, you could use your own hard-earned money to pay for it. We're talking about taxpayers paying you to go to school at age 18 when you are not ready.
This is pre-pandemic but it paints the picture of part of the problem:
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