What Recession? Job Report Shows Red Hot Labor Market (loans, 2013, millionaires)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
My point was that the policy is not the problem. If it was, the problwm would be more acute in specific areas. It's not, it's everywhere. I live in Oregon, not California by the way.
What I hope for, is a deep recession where unemployment goes above 10% and sudenly people can't pay these inflated prices because they have no job. Or 20%. That would be great. I especially hope the tech industry gets decimated. Who has destroyed everything in the past 3 years are these work from home yuppies.
Probably not going to happen though.
That didn't happen where I live. Even in the Great Recession, unemployment never got above 8%, when it's normally around 4%. Granted, we had a lot of Ph.D.s doing part-time work during the day and waiting tables at night, but they were able to buy food and pay their bills. All the last recession did was drive up rental costs, which hurt young people because you can't save for a house if you are paying more than half of your take-home in rent, but if you can't afford a house, you have to rent. Rock, hard place. I suspect that would be the same, now.
I get that you're angry. I graduated college in 1988 and it took me 10 years to pay off a student loan. I cannot imagine what it would be like to pay for my education now. Definitely couldn't afford my own alma mater, or the student loan debt it would take for me to attend. I also laugh at people "of an age" who were able to set up pretty nice lives for themselves decades ago, when things like education, housing, and health care took a much smaller proportion of their paychecks. These tend to be the same people who pizz and moan about raising the minimum wage, even as they were able to do a lot more with the same $7.25 an hour back in the 80s.
But there are a lot of hard-working people out here, and a lot of people who have done you no harm. Wishing job loss or unemployment on 10-20% of the workforce is pretty spiteful and churlish.
As for the tech industry, say what you want, but tech start-ups are so notorious for being gulags and pressure-cookers that there are multiple documentaries on it. However, it raised the standards for work environments. There is no reason for people to be in an office if they can do the same jobs at home, thanks to technology.
Working at home is better for physical and mental health for a LOT of people, and it's better for the environment because it keeps cars off the road. It is also cheaper in that it doesn't require a whole lot of consumption people tend not to consider until they actually work from home and realize they are no longer spending what they spent before, beyond gas for the cars they're no longer driving to work. The last time I bought a pair of shoes, new clothes, or a tote bag for work was early 2019, and I just threw out a lot of make-up and styling products that had been sitting under my bathroom sink all that time.
Just because you're having a hard time, that doesn't mean that other people should have to suffer. I don't get that mentality. I've seen some things. But that just makes me not want other people to have to deal with them too, because I know what it's like.
Sure. Because you can't get it together, you want everyone else to suffer.
Let me clue you in. I paid my dues. I had entire years where I didn't know how I'd make ends meet. But I kept at it, and I certainly didn't wallow in the self-pity that you seem to enjoy so much. The advice I've giving you is nothing more than the advice I gave myself. And given that my home is paid for, the chances of losing it are nil. Because I bought a home well within my means.
What's more, I can sit here on my laptop and find plenty of towns where there's affordable housing and a decent lifestyle. Google is your friend, you know. I also know that there is a chronic teacher shortage in this country at the moment. If you can't find a situation, that likely has a lot to do with you.
Dude, the world isn't rigged against you, it's merely indifferent. Quit wasting your time beefing and start looking for a solution.
There ARE no homes within means anymore. I owned two of them. The prices they're worth now are far beyond 1 middle class earner's potential. The one I owned went from 350k to 700k in TWO YEARS. My income did not double in that time.
You act like your advice is so smart. It's not. "Move somewhere." That is not viable advice.
Moving costs money for one. Then, to be a teacher in another state requires numerous certifications that take anywhere from 6 to 18 months to earn, which again costs money you have to pay to colleges. Why do you think there is a shortage? People aren't doing that anymore.
So far your advice would cost money, not make it.
Last edited by redguard57; 08-18-2022 at 10:28 AM..
That didn't happen where I live. Even in the Great Recession, unemployment never got above 8%, when it's normally around 4%. Granted, we had a lot of Ph.D.s doing part-time work during the day and waiting tables at night, but they were able to buy food and pay their bills. All the last recession did was drive up rental costs, which hurt young people because you can't save for a house if you are paying more than half of your take-home in rent, but if you can't afford a house, you have to rent. Rock, hard place. I suspect that would be the same, now.
I get that you're angry. I graduated college in 1988 and it took me 10 years to pay off a student loan. I cannot imagine what it would be like to pay for my education now. Definitely couldn't afford my own alma mater, or the student loan debt it would take for me to attend. I also laugh at people "of an age" who were able to set up pretty nice lives for themselves decades ago, when things like education, housing, and health care took a much smaller proportion of their paychecks. These tend to be the same people who pizz and moan about raising the minimum wage, even as they were able to do a lot more with the same $7.25 an hour back in the 80s.
But there are a lot of hard-working people out here, and a lot of people who have done you no harm. Wishing job loss or unemployment on 10-20% of the workforce is pretty spiteful and churlish.
As for the tech industry, say what you want, but tech start-ups are so notorious for being gulags and pressure-cookers that there are multiple documentaries on it. However, it raised the standards for work environments. There is no reason for people to be in an office if they can do the same jobs at home, thanks to technology.
Working at home is better for physical and mental health for a LOT of people, and it's better for the environment because it keeps cars off the road. It is also cheaper in that it doesn't require a whole lot of consumption people tend not to consider until they actually work from home and realize they are no longer spending what they spent before, beyond gas for the cars they're no longer driving to work. The last time I bought a pair of shoes, new clothes, or a tote bag for work was early 2019, and I just threw out a lot of make-up and styling products that had been sitting under my bathroom sink all that time.
Just because you're having a hard time, that doesn't mean that other people should have to suffer. I don't get that mentality. I've seen some things. But that just makes me not want other people to have to deal with them too, because I know what it's like.
I am most definitely angry.
I'm not in that bad of a spot, and luckily I have a decent apartment that I like; proabably up there for the best rental I've ever had. I make enough to continue living this way.
But career-job is supposed to = owning a house. I worked effing hard to own a house it was my goal for over a decade. Now, I can't just re-create what I did before because the prices are simply THAT out of line. Renting is technically throwing money away... but so would maxing out a mortgage! I would pay about $1500 a month more, literally double my apt. rent to own a house that is in worse shape than the duplex I'm renting. They only raised my rent by 1% this year, which tells me they are asking what the market will bear for a unit of this quality. Renting simply makes more sense right now, until or unless prices decline, more units come for sale, or both. One major problem I have is that there simply *are not* the kinds of units on the market that I would want to buy. I don't need a 2000sf house that costs $625k. Even if I had the money, that would be a waste. I don't even use all the square footage of my 825sf apartment! I live in about 600sf of it and the 2nd bedroom is storage! Which is why I'm working on converting that br into an airbnb room.
The kind of house that I first bought in 2014 - a 2/1 1000sf 1950s house, does not exist on the market right now. I'm not sure what happened to units of that nature. When I was on the market in 2014, there were quite plentiful listings of fixer-uppers in the 100-200k range. Today I would expect the prices to be 200-300k for an equivalent unit, which I would accept. There are NONE right now. Zero. Everything is 490k+ and more house than I want or need. If they are under 300k they are manufactured where you don't actually own the land.
It's why it's ridiculous to accuse me of wanting a house outside my means, when in fact my goal IS to purchase a house with PITI approximately what my rent payment is. I was able to do that pre-covid. Now, it seems impossible. They don't exist.
It's why it's ridiculous to accuse me of wanting a house outside my means, when in fact my goal IS to purchase a house with PITI approximately what my rent payment is. I was able to do that pre-covid. Now, it seems impossible. They don't exist.
IMO rents being cheaper than PITI for equivalently sized housing is a telltale sign of house prices being too high.
Just curious, you keep saying you owned two houses and now rent, and you want to buy again. What happened to those two houses?
IMO rents being cheaper than PITI for equivalently sized housing is a telltale sign of house prices being too high.
If I could find an equivalent sized house! I would be fine with ~1000sf. Units of that nature are not on the market.
As an example - there is a pretty nice house that just popped up - 45-50 minutes away, has the features I would really like, but it's 1950sf. 410k. That is actually a decent price per square foot given everything but 1) I don't need 45% of that square footage... I would literally be air conditioning empty space that I would never use. 2) The 50 minute commute would cost me in money, time, and convenience, and distance from friends that would probably not satisfy me despite the actual house being nice.
Where TF are the small houses in decent condition?
Quote:
Just curious, you keep saying you owned two houses and now rent, and you want to buy again. What happened to those two houses?
Sold the first house & then bought the 2nd. Divorce happened, that's what. My ex kept the house; bought me out. I got half a house's equity, which... well is obviously half as much as I need to fold into a new downpayment at current prices.
It's actually pretty ridiculous how much cash I have... that I can't really afford a house. Or let me put that more precisely - comfortably afford. I could do what my ex-wife is now doing, which is put my entire net worth into a down payment, and THEN pay out over 50% net income just for PITI. In an irony, her net worth is more than mine now.. but it's ALL home equity, and she's now living paycheck-to-paycheck. But the house is what she wanted.
She had to refinance the max of what they would approve her for to get a cash out, AND give me 93% of our savings and investments (that's where house #1's proceeds were), in order to buy me out. The inflated home value was both a blessing and curse for both of us.
I've obsessed about these calculations. I need one of two things to happen, or some combination of both - 1) home values decline about 35-40%. or 2) I somehow come into about 200-250k cash. If the prices decline I can do it with less than that. The only way I can think of doing #2, is getting enough pt work to pay my bills, and investing the entirety of my FT job salary for about 3 years.
Last edited by redguard57; 08-18-2022 at 06:56 PM..
If I could find an equivalent sized house! I would be fine with ~1000sf. Units of that nature are not on the market.
As an example - there is a pretty nice house that just popped up - 45-50 minutes away, has the features I would really like, but it's 1950sf. 410k. That is actually a decent price per square foot given everything but 1) I don't need 45% of that square footage... I would literally be air conditioning empty space that I would never use. 2) The 50 minute commute would cost me in money, time, and convenience, and distance from friends that would probably not satisfy me despite the actual house being nice.
Where TF are the small houses in decent condition?
Sold the first house & then bought the 2nd. Divorce happened, that's what. My ex kept the house; bought me out. I got half a house's equity, which... well is obviously half as much as I need to fold into a new downpayment at current prices.
It's actually pretty ridiculous how much cash I have... that I can't really afford a house. Or let me put that more precisely - comfortably afford. I could do what my ex-wife is now doing, which is put my entire net worth into a down payment, and THEN pay out over 50% net income just for PITI. In an irony, her net worth is more than mine now.. but it's ALL home equity, and she's now living paycheck-to-paycheck. But the house is what she wanted.
She had to refinance the max of what they would approve her for to get a cash out, AND give me 93% of our savings and investments (that's where house #1's proceeds were), in order to buy me out. The inflated home value was both a blessing and curse for both of us.
I've obsessed about these calculations. I need one of two things to happen, or some combination of both - 1) home values decline about 35-40%. or 2) I somehow come into about 200-250k cash. If the prices decline I can do it with less than that. The only way I can think of doing #2, is getting enough pt work to pay my bills, and investing the entirety of my FT job salary for about 3 years.
This whole story is precisely why so many people leave coastal states to go to cheaper inland options where they can buy houses and not live paycheck to paycheck. This struggle is the struggle of countless people. Problem for you and so many others is you can't dictate to the market what's justified or acceptable. Demand is just too high and unless something completely insane happens demand is not going to decline.
This whole story is precisely why so many people leave coastal states to go to cheaper inland options where they can buy houses and not live paycheck to paycheck. This struggle is the struggle of countless people. Problem for you and so many others is you can't dictate to the market what's justified or acceptable. Demand is just too high and unless something completely insane happens demand is not going to decline.
Maybe if interest rates continue to go up?
I'm befuddled by where people have gotten all this money, either for downpayments, to service jumbo mortgages, or both. Where did they get it & who has it???
I mean, we read articles about how 40% of the population can't afford a $400 emergency. CLEARLY that is a lie. Instead, the reality is that I'm actually the poor one here. Which is crazy, because I'm not poor. But in this version of the world I am.
There are clearly a lot of people out there that have a *great deal* of money.
Some younger folks embrace technology and bought bitcoins ,technology/internet stocks early,I dont mean venture capitalists,just ordinary workers who have spare change ,they cash in and retire to pursue their interest.
Say you bought Bitcoins early and cash in when it reaches 5 figures,or Google,Amzn,Etsy,Spotify,you have done well.
some could be inheritance,if their parents past on houses which are sold for good money and they will buy a new one .
Couples who are both professional,combined income in 6 figures should have no problem servicing a high 6 figures mortgage.
I know a guy who lives in a room managing a squat house,his sibling gave him almost a million to buy a house in Ca,it is meant to be a religious sanctuary, he does not have the money to maintain it,it needs furniture,insurance,property tax,utility bills.
where does his sibling get the money,they are elderly and made their fortune in business,they want to do good deeds and help their family member.
I mean, we read articles about how 40% of the population can't afford a $400 emergency. CLEARLY that is a lie.
-------
No,it is not a lie,they live from paycheck to paycheck and with their credit cards,they manage to survive.
Ask yourself,if you car needs repair in the hundreds,do you have cash to pay for the repair?if you have a house which need new fence,cost is $1300,would you pay cash or use your credit card?
This whole story is precisely why so many people leave coastal states to go to cheaper inland options where they can buy houses and not live paycheck to paycheck. This struggle is the struggle of countless people. Problem for you and so many others is you can't dictate to the market what's justified or acceptable. Demand is just too high and unless something completely insane happens demand is not going to decline.
----------
someone on Youtube listed ten cities where the PE ratio of the house price divided by a person annual income is so high,he is predicting a collapse -Boise,Phoenix,Austin,Colorado Spring,etc
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
