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I would rather people smarten up, then have the government dumb us down.
You only get ripped off if you let someone do it to you. Ignorance is a poor excuse. When you're dealing with financial transactions, you need to educate yourself or hire someone qualified to protect your best interests. (I mean that as a generic "you," not anyone personally.)
No industry truly self-monitors. Best Buy will try to sell you the bigger TV. Sears will try to trade you up to the fancy French door refrigerator. Even the lawn guy will swap out the cheaper mulch if you don't watch it. Salespeople and companies are always looking to better their bottom line. Always. How can anyone not know this? And act accordingly. The government wouldn't need to monitor if we would just monitor ourselves.
[quote=World Citizen;4403795]An attorney would not have advised them not to sign the documents because they could not afford the houses. He would have taken their $500 and been just another person profiting from them. For that matter, I'm sure the predatory mortgage companies would have had a list of attorneys to refer their clients to. The one I worked briefly for even had their own, in house, Property Inspector.
How many Savings and Loans and Banks, Financial Planners and Investment Brokers (and Realtors... and Insurance Companies...) have blatently ripped off their clients by various methods during my lifetime?.... and now this.
It is obvious that the financial industry does not self monitor and should not be trusted to do so.[/QUOTE]
Oh holy cow. Now you don't know what you're talking about. Banks have to open their books to the Federal government on a quarterly basis. The bank examiners go over their books with a fine-toothed comb. Ask any bank that's gone through the wringer over the wording of a legal disclaimer, and they'll tell you how much they get scrutinized.
The problem here is that the vast majority of lenders are scrupulous and remain pretty conservative in what they lend and what terms. But you'd rather just tar everybody with the same brush.
Excuse me. I don't appreciate your statement that I don't know what I'm talking about.
I have worked in and around this industry for years. I've worked for Investment Brokers, a Financial Planner and as a Real Estate closing secretary - as well as that short stint at that Mortgage Company.
I've lived long enough to remember the various Savings and Loans and bank failures, the junk bonds and many other financial industry rip offs.
It's because of these things that they are now more regulated.
We were talking about self regulation, weren't we??
Last edited by World Citizen; 07-10-2008 at 12:51 PM..
Excuse me. I don't appreciate your statement that I don't know what I'm talking about. I have worked in and around this industry for years. I've worked for Investment Brokers, Financial Planners and as a Real Estate closing secretary. I've lived long enough to remember the various Savings and Loans, banks and the junk bonds and many industry rip offs.
It's because of these things that they are more regulated.
And we were talking about self regulation, now weren't we??
What? You think you have the corner on experience here? I've been through all those upheavals, too, in an advisory capacity. There's a term for financial companies that don't regulate themselves: Out Of Business. The ones that stick to the fundamentals and regulate themselves are in it over the long haul. Look, I'm sorry that you've evidently worked for a bunch of sleazeballs and grifters. But most of the clients I've worked with have kept to pretty conservative standards in their underwriting, in their client relationships, and in their approach to the markets. They haven't grown as quickly, but they've remained in business with a large portfolio of happy clients.
If you don't know what you're doing, ask. There's no excuse. People can ask just about any homeowner, their bank, home-owner advocacy groups that offer advice for free, and research can be done at libraries and via the internet.
When you buy a house or condo, you spend the $75 to $150 consultation fee with a real estate attorney, who looks after your interests by reviewing the mortgage documents, include the mortgage itself.
If you can't afford to consult with a real estate attorney, that should be the first clue you can't afford a house and ought not be buying one.
I have no pity for them, and I'll be damned if they get even 1 penny of my hard earned tax dollars to subsidize their stupidity.
If you want to blame someone, blame them, or blame the liberals for having created the "me generation" educated and trained in the fine art of hedonism, self-indulgence, self-aggrandizement and instant self gratification.
I do feel sorry for the people who lost their homes. I certainly don't feel sorry for the lenders! The Mortgage industry is just another sales "profession" - along with Real Estate. The more you spend/borrow, the more money your broker/agent/salesperson makes.
What has happened is totally due to corporate greed. While there is blame for all involved - I blame the aforementioned sales people much more than the people who trusted them... after all, they were selling the American Dream. As Americans, we all trust banks because we believe that they are governed by ethics - and we Americans trust that their practices are overseen and regulated by our government.
I worked BRIEFLY as a secretary in a Mortgage company a few years ago. It was eye opening for me to see how everything was being done.
The owner of the company drove a new car, had a big house -- the office was located in a fashionable area in a fashionable building. All of this was accomplished through interest only loans. (They tried to talk me into one while I was there)
I came into an office where all of the mortgage "brokers" were brand new. High turnover was cyclical for them. When new "brokers" came in they brought their friends and family into the office for loans. All of them were on straight commission so if they didn't start making money, they would be gone soon. When they left, all of the work they'd done - all of the contacts they made - belonged to the office.
I couldn't even get people to come do work on the office machines because they didn't pay their bills.
The job paid me more than any job I ever had but it didn't matter to me because it was such a dirty business ... I wanted nothing to do with it.
This whole sub-prime mortgage fiasco is the fault of corporate greed and a total lack of ethics. It should have been stopped much sooner!
Who is in charge of monitoring this industry? That is who I blame.
I am sorry you had to work for such an unethical lender/broker and I do believe you as I worked for several lenders in S. Fla and the fraud and incompetence I saw was mind blowing. That said, I would like to point out that not all brokers are greedy & your experience is not how it is always done. I work for a broker who has been in the same location for almost 30 years. I have worked for him for 11. He does not drive a fancy car, in fact up until a few years ago he drove a mid 80's POS and even now drives a 7 year old vehicle. He is not rich at all and if you want the truth the average fee we make on a loan is around $ 2200.00. So not every one is out to rip people off and quite frankly we lost so much business during the sub-prime boom because we refused to put people in crap loans. While everyone else was making major money we did what we always do and that is put people in good loans that they can afford and qualify for without doctoring anything. A lot of those clients we turned away got their ARMS, IO'S and junk loans and are coming back to us in droves trying to get us to save them. Sadly most are beyond our help but I just wanted to put out there that while we may be salespeople, a lot of us value our reputation above $$ and I suppose that is why we will soon celebrate 30 years.
Sorry to ramble but I had to defend some of the good guys. We would have loved to have profitted the way a lot of other brokers did but not at the risk of our own reputation. Also, my boss & I have too much Catholic guilt to be able to pull anything off that was not above board.
If you want to blame someone, blame them, or blame the liberals for having created the "me generation" educated and trained in the fine art of hedonism, self-indulgence, self-aggrandizement and instant self gratification.
...and robbed them of the ability to recognize when they couldn't afford it.
...and robbed them of the ability to recognize when they couldn't afford it.
Yep. Evidently the words "Always read the contract" seemed to have left the language. Probably because of all the deconstructionists now running amok at our universities.
I am sorry you had to work for such an unethical lender/broker and I do believe you as I worked for several lenders in S. Fla and the fraud and incompetence I saw was mind blowing. That said, I would like to point out that not all brokers are greedy & your experience is not how it is always done. I work for a broker who has been in the same location for almost 30 years. I have worked for him for 11. He does not drive a fancy car, in fact up until a few years ago he drove a mid 80's POS and even now drives a 7 year old vehicle. He is not rich at all and if you want the truth the average fee we make on a loan is around $ 2200.00. So not every one is out to rip people off and quite frankly we lost so much business during the sub-prime boom because we refused to put people in crap loans. While everyone else was making major money we did what we always do and that is put people in good loans that they can afford and qualify for without doctoring anything. A lot of those clients we turned away got their ARMS, IO'S and junk loans and are coming back to us in droves trying to get us to save them. Sadly most are beyond our help but I just wanted to put out there that while we may be salespeople, a lot of us value our reputation above $$ and I suppose that is why we will soon celebrate 30 years.
Sorry to ramble but I had to defend some of the good guys. We would have loved to have profitted the way a lot of other brokers did but not at the risk of our own reputation. Also, my boss & I have too much Catholic guilt to be able to pull anything off that was not above board.
Thank you for that. I've also found that there are lots of good guys in the business. But some people are more interested in simplistic labels than actually viewing a complex issue for what it is: Complex.
I am sorry you had to work for such an unethical lender/broker and I do believe you as I worked for several lenders in S. Fla and the fraud and incompetence I saw was mind blowing. That said, I would like to point out that not all brokers are greedy & your experience is not how it is always done. I work for a broker who has been in the same location for almost 30 years. I have worked for him for 11. He does not drive a fancy car, in fact up until a few years ago he drove a mid 80's POS and even now drives a 7 year old vehicle. He is not rich at all and if you want the truth the average fee we make on a loan is around $ 2200.00. So not every one is out to rip people off and quite frankly we lost so much business during the sub-prime boom because we refused to put people in crap loans. While everyone else was making major money we did what we always do and that is put people in good loans that they can afford and qualify for without doctoring anything. A lot of those clients we turned away got their ARMS, IO'S and junk loans and are coming back to us in droves trying to get us to save them. Sadly most are beyond our help but I just wanted to put out there that while we may be salespeople, a lot of us value our reputation above $$ and I suppose that is why we will soon celebrate 30 years.
Sorry to ramble but I had to defend some of the good guys. We would have loved to have profitted the way a lot of other brokers did but not at the risk of our own reputation. Also, my boss & I have too much Catholic guilt to be able to pull anything off that was not above board.
I know there are good Mortgage lenders, too. This thread was about the other guys... and that's why I shared my experience.
And, now, it's become about "self regulating"...
I worked for one of the oldest and best known Brokerage Firms not too long after the "junk bond" fiasco. I worked for 35 realtors in an office of a nationwide, highly esteemed Real Estate Firm...
I've also worked briefly for a crook that called himself a Financial Planner and for that mortgage company.... and, I worked with a well known charity whose funds were being embezzled by their accountant who was a CPA, a church member and a well thought of member of the community.
I could tell many, many stories... both from my work and other life experience - as I'm sure many of you also can.
Most people aren't educated about financial things. When you have sales people dealing with people's financial futures to this degree, I believe that it has to somehow be monitored.
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So, it's not YOUR fault...
