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I'm surprised you have to ask this. The store charges you a small fee to give you the discount card in order to create something that resembles loyalty. They want you to come back to the store again & again. If you are willing to part with the $25, chances are good that you will come back. And if you don't want to lay out the $25, you likely aren't a frequent enough customer. (And if you are a frequent customer, but still don't fork over the $25 to get the discount, you're just being silly & leaving moeny in their cash register that you could be putting in your pocket.) They aren't giving you the card so you can spend less, they're SELLING you the card so you'll spend MORE. A very good business decision. I just bought my new Starbucks gold card for this very reason. I spend $25 now, to save 10% every time I go into a Starbucks.
But you would have to spend $250 w/ the card in order to get your money back @ B & N then everything you spend afterwards would be the real savings. No?
AACKKKK!!!
Government control of the economy? Government spending? No, I don't think so! A bad idea, no matter whether Dems or Repubs are in control of the gov't. NOWHERE in our Constitution does it say the Government should be in control of the economy, and nowhere in our history can I find a good solid example of government control of our economy working out to the betterment of the nation. Horrible horrible idea. You want spending? Reduce government spending, reduce taxation, let the people & companies keep more of their money. They'll all find ways to spend it.
As to the New Deal; there are many who argue, quite convincingly, that the New Deal, and the attendant SPENDING of taxpayers money, caused the depression to last longer than it otherwise would have.
You're missing the point. Government control of economic vehicles does not automatically equate to increased govt spending, and to be honest, that's the least of your problems as a "citizen". How's the debt-based consumption economy working out for us lately? Not so great. Your cheerleading for Laissez-faire motivated economic escapism fails to address that the government is not your friend NOT because they're inherently evil, they are not your friend because YOUR complacency allowed the private enterprise oligarchy of a few white men smarter than you to monopolize control over the fundamental functions of what the Republic was supposed to do for you. The irony of your self-imposed economic slavery is so clever it actually hurts.
People moan and groan about the paradox of living a more frugal life and the detrimental effect that has for the collective in a service, and more fundamentally, a debt-as-currency based economy. Well, it has to happen, let it go. The finance firms and international bankers do NOT want this to happen; they asked Rockefeller in 2007 what his thoughts were on Ron Paul's assertion that the Fed needed to be abolished and he said he didn't think it was that big of an issue and frankly hadn't even heard of the guy...Hmm, you still believe in Santa too?
The service economy needs to die. The transition period will be painful. Unless you're one of the aforementioned members of financial oligarchy, said transition is actually good for you, while current trading markets are NOT. So re-read history until it makes sense to ya, government is not the source of all evil, govt only looks bad to you because it currently does not represent you, but that's not their fault, it's yours for letting those smarter than you hoodwink ya into believing that their self-interest would trickle down to your self-interest. Yes, stop spending on what you don't need anyways. Save money for emergencies. Stop believing in supply-side economics as your moral compass and source of attitudes towards life and your fellow men. Only then we have a snowballs chance to re-take government and have it work for US again. Regulation or de-regulation is irrelevant so long as it works on the current rig. The rig needs resetting, quarreling between those who believe in more govt involvement versus less involvement are missing the point entirely, kinda like the election (and voting under the electoral college for that matter) was an irrelevancy. Government is a great thing when they're actually working for ya instead of against ya (again, YOUR fault).
But you would have to spend $250 w/ the card in order to get your money back @ B & N then everything you spend afterwards would be the real savings. No?
Correct. But if I didn't spend $250 in books in a year, I probably died before June.
well, I wonder where many American companies would be now if the Government wasn't bailing 'em out. Like it or not, without these interventions the American economy would collapse, because it's blatantly clear that greed overwhelms honesty among corporations.
Companies should be allowed to fail. If they make bad business decisions, they should deal with the repurcussions of those decisions. The economy would not clllapse as a result. If they were providing a product or service that was needed, some other company would step in & provide that product or service. If they weren't, well then, that's why they failed, eh?
You're missing the point. Government control of economic vehicles does not automatically equate to increased govt spending, and to be honest, that's the least of your problems as a "citizen". How's the debt-based consumption economy working out for us lately? Not so great. Your cheerleading for Laissez-faire motivated economic escapism fails to address that the government is not your friend NOT because they're inherently evil, they are not your friend because YOUR complacency allowed the private enterprise oligarchy of a few white men smarter than you to monopolize control over the fundamental functions of what the Republic was supposed to do for you. The irony of your self-imposed economic slavery is so clever it actually hurts.
I never said, nor do I believe, that government is inherently evil. Those elected to government positions have made bad decisions, and those decisions have created an untenable situation for the nation. The post to which I responded was one that advocated an increase in government spending, similar to the New Deal.
I'm surprised you have to ask this. The store charges you a small fee to give you the discount card in order to create something that resembles loyalty. They want you to come back to the store again & again. If you are willing to part with the $25, chances are good that you will come back. And if you don't want to lay out the $25, you likely aren't a frequent enough customer. (And if you are a frequent customer, but still don't fork over the $25 to get the discount, you're just being silly & leaving moeny in their cash register that you could be putting in your pocket.) They aren't giving you the card so you can spend less, they're SELLING you the card so you'll spend MORE. A very good business decision. I just bought my new Starbucks gold card for this very reason. I spend $25 now, to save 10% every time I go into a Starbucks.
You are right I don't buy so many books and I drink my coffee rather at home and I love hot chocolate but rather buy it at Panera than at Starbucks since Starbucks is over charging so much...so i save more money
It is very fashionable these days to blame "irresponsible" people who "buy a lot of junk they don't need and don't save". I think those irresponsible people are quiet rare and are largely a myth. Let's do some math.
Here in SF Bay Area, just to live comfortably, a household of 2 needs about $3,500/month-- by "comfortably" I mean eat well, live in a decent place and have a day of fun every week. Taking taxes into account, that requires an annual income of 55K or so.
Needless to say, 55K is about the limit for what a typical working class couple can hope to earn, if they're lucky. A combination of 2 typical non-professional jobs that pay $10/hr each will yield only slightly over $40K/year! Note that any saving is out of the question. If there is a medical emergency or a loss of job, the said household is completely screwed.
The essence of the matter, I think, is that there aren't that many *real* opportunities to make a decent living for common folks. The jobs that pay adequately are scarce, unless you have special training. Once the easy credit "miracle" vanished, it became only too obvious that America is a country with A LOT of poor people. They don't borrow to buy flat screen TV's-- they borrow to live with dignity.
I think people in this situation should start thinking about moving to a place with a lower cost of living. That's what many people are doing. Also, when the money was easy, that helped drive up the price of housing. SF is expensive to begin with, and not a place to try to live without a really good job.
Companies should be allowed to fail. If they make bad business decisions, they should deal with the repurcussions of those decisions. The economy would not clllapse as a result. If they were providing a product or service that was needed, some other company would step in & provide that product or service. If they weren't, well then, that's why they failed, eh?
Agreed! Other companies will quickly step in to fill the void, and they will likely do a better job. If the strong aren't allowed to replace the weak, it weakens the entire food chain.
We have entered a bizarro world, where we are enabling the weak, instead of letting them fail... and perhaps learn something from it. Enabling weak businesses, weak executives, weak homeowners and weak borrowers makes it more difficult for new ideas, new innovations, new money and new players to enter the market. It's holding us back instead of moving us forward.
It is very fashionable these days to blame "irresponsible" people who "buy a lot of junk they don't need and don't save". I think those irresponsible people are quiet rare and are largely a myth. Let's do some math.
The essence of the matter, I think, is that there aren't that many *real* opportunities to make a decent living for common folks. .
Point one: If I personally know 250 people who fit the "irresponsible people who buy a lot of junk they don't need and don't save" category (and I know a lot more than that), then they do exist, and they exist in HUGE numbers.
I actually know more people with unnecessary credit card debt/stupid car loans than people who don't have it. And I know a wide variety of people who make anywhere between $15,000/yr and millions of dollars.
And almost every single person I know who does not have health insurance CHOSE not to buy it or CHOSE not to enroll in their company's health plan. Since I work in the medical field, I know a lot about that, too. And I also consider that an irresponsible financial decision.
I made a lot of ambulance runs (as part of my training) to 'poor' parts of town...remember seeing a lot of big-screen tvs and multi-tv/multi-car households down there in the 'ghetto.' Lots of XBoxes and Playstations, too. Cable hook-ups, satellite dishes, chips, beers, sodas, cigs, liquor...oh, but these poor folk couldn't afford health insurance! Many were getting govt assistance on top of getting paid under the table for whatever work they did do.
Point two: The rest of America is not San Francisco. Most of America is not even close to San Francisco. And while you may not be living high on the hog (or even what the media wants you to believe is 'middle class living'), you can make a decent life for yourself and have some savings if you handle your money properly.
I think the real problem is the stupid idea that people have gotten of what middle class lifestyle is supposed to be. And then they feel like they have to go get all that stuff or else they're missing out on all the fun they're supposed to be having.
When we became more 'entitled' as a population, all these problems erupted. There's little sense of delayed gratification, b/c you don't have to save up anymore to buy the things you want. Buy it on credit instead!
You're right. People see it in the store window or on television, and will do anything to have it.
That's why you have things such as "No Interest Until 2010!" "Five Easy Payments!" and "Just Finance It!" People have depleted the equity in their homes to pay for vacations, for renovations, and anything else imaginable. Then again, today's economic problems are the predictable result of a economy that relies on people buying Christmas presents.
Here's the acid test: Big Screen TVs. Seriously. Who needs one? Yet they kept getting bigger and bigger.
My wife and I bought a house that was fully half of what the mortgage people said we could afford. Our cars are not topline. We clip coupons. We do not take three-four vacations a year. We pay off our credit cards monthly. We keep our Christmases simple.
In fact, here are warning signs that you're probably a big spender.
Televisions over 30 inches.
Premium television channels such as HBO and Showtime
Mobile phones for children under 15
Books and Magazines. That's what the library is for.
More than one vacation a year.
A car that requires you to stretch payments out to five-six years (Unless it's
0% interest, then have at it)
Nights out that you rack up on your credit card
Shoes. As in lots of them. Are you getting into Imelda Marcos territory? there you go.
A shiny new iPod, just because you want it.
Anything where you say, "Gosh, I just feel like rewarding myself."
Designer labels.
Premium gas.
98% of the Sharper Image's inventory.
Any others you can name?
Last edited by cpg35223; 11-12-2008 at 09:15 AM..
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