U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Mother`s Day to all Moms!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-04-2008, 03:24 PM
 
Location: NJ
2,111 posts, read 7,499,164 times
Reputation: 1018

Advertisements

I have to depend on SS and my 401 savings for income.

Meantime I am paying for State and Federal Employee's health care and pensions through taxes, and now bail out the auto workers? Cool

I know someone that gets a pension from the State (NJ), health care payed for her and her husband (who never worked for the State), and she's retired.

How long does this freebie last?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-04-2008, 03:25 PM
 
20,194 posts, read 21,674,290 times
Reputation: 9242
The freebies stop when ever last socialist is kicked out of the country...
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-04-2008, 04:08 PM
 
Location: NJ
2,111 posts, read 7,499,164 times
Reputation: 1018
I have a small pension from years ago when I worked for Westinghouse. When a company has good profits, then I understand giving money to employees for a pension fund. But I never realized till recently that this friend gets a pension and health care from the State, from profits? So pensions come from other sources, like the public. And now the Auto Workers have a problem with pensions and health care if the big 3 go under. What about the rest of us who are struggling? This does not add up.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2008, 11:15 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 4,851,902 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus430 View Post
I have to depend on SS and my 401 savings for income.

Meantime I am paying for State and Federal Employee's health care and pensions through taxes, and now bail out the auto workers? Cool

I know someone that gets a pension from the State (NJ), health care payed for her and her husband (who never worked for the State), and she's retired.

How long does this freebie last?
you want a pension? be good to your kids, spend on their education and give them your time. immerse yourself in your community and lend a hand when you can. keep a vegetable garden and plant a fruit tree. put some of your money in the bank. there's your pension. i don't contribute to a pension because after working in the industry i know that it'll be practically worthless when i need it!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2008, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,500 posts, read 21,059,303 times
Reputation: 4255
Those of you with kids, at least you have something.

When I get old and sick, I will crawl out into the woods and die.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2008, 11:31 AM
 
Location: NJ
2,111 posts, read 7,499,164 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
you want a pension? be good to your kids, spend on their education and give them your time. immerse yourself in your community and lend a hand when you can. keep a vegetable garden and plant a fruit tree. put some of your money in the bank. there's your pension. i don't contribute to a pension because after working in the industry i know that it'll be practically worthless when i need it!
I would imagine the pension funds are in trouble also with them tapping into them. Most pensions are borrowed from or invested in the stock market. I may not have a pension but I have control over my money.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2008, 01:04 PM
 
16,434 posts, read 20,293,984 times
Reputation: 9567
Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus430 View Post
I have to depend on SS
Meantime I am paying for State and Federal Employee's health care and pensions through taxes, and now bail out the auto workers? Cool
?
Just a word of caution: though I am in the same boat and agree with you, there are many that feel the same way about SS that they are paying into and don't expect to receive. Do we really want to start this war?

And just a word to those who imagine that their kids will take care of them later on: good luck.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2008, 01:39 PM
 
1,824 posts, read 4,200,605 times
Reputation: 4929
Control of your money in the form of a 401K? Bah, you're taking a paycut for your whole life just to end up underfunded anyways. 401K sounds great on paper but it only works if you have disposable income out the wazzoo. That's a catch-22 because most people have 401Ks because the employers are trying to cut cost and they shift the burden on you, which implies you're not getting paid to have disposable income out the wazoo. This is a double whammy to you because they're not giving you compensation to account for the uphill battle you'll have as a individual investor in keeping up with inflation, never mind an extended life expectancy, and are expecting of you to fund a deffered benefit fund 40 years out with money you need to put food on the table today, to end up not being able to put food on the table today OR in 40 years. Otherwise they'd offer you a pension to begin with. They're giving you a paycut straight up and selling ya on this "control" fallacy warm fuzzy. Most people underfund their 401Ks, not because they're idiots, but because they need 100% of their net income to make due, to include funding traditional savings accounts to substantiate emerency funds and life purchases. 401Ks are not this free lunch everybody keeps talking about. Everybody's tight. The average household 401K balance is 29,000. Even with the late game infusion they're still underfunded so bad it's not even funny. Good luck retiring on that. Everybody knows SS is a joke so nobody is banking on that to pull them through.

So pensions? Heck yeah they're fair, you should be chasing one when you're looking for employment, priority #1. You're dang skippy a company has a social role in funding my dignified death. That's why they want you job hopping every ten years and rolling over that joke of a retirement plan, so that nobody can argue you were ever vested enough for people to adjudicate such a social responsibility is incumbent on the employer. I'm 27 and have no 401K, nope, I'm chasing a pension job and when I get there I'm sitting on that job like people in the 50s had the luxury of doing. I don't need my liquid to go into a tax penalty for 40 years when I need my income to fund my life TODAY; I can do liquid savings better than a 401K anyways. What's a 401K tax advantage today when the money I'm saving will be worth jack in 40 years and will still get taxed, at least I can use my liquid cash today for today.... What I need is the social reassurance that when I'm no longer physically capable of being productive in the same capacity, that society, in the form of my employer, will recognize the value of my existence and production until I die. Instead we have a system that constantly commoditizes human life and feeds you this self-reliant garbage to stigmatize the value and purpose of a pension system. In short, go look for a pension plan instead of moaning about those who did their homework early and figured out the *** while you got stuck with a lousy 401K. If that means giving up on a particular employer you'd like to work for, then guess what, there's no free lunch anywhere. But I know enough economics to recognize 30 years before I'm ever in said situation, that I have a better chance of winning third place in women's gymnastics (im a guy.. giggity giggity) than having my retirement funded to even a 50% peak income level, with the best 401K out there.

As to the comment about bailing out the auto indsutry, guess what you bailed out the financeer plutocrat class that imposes the 401K fallacy on you, and you posed less resitance to that bailout than you do (on principle) to the auto industry, whose only fault so far is have the same level of mismanagement as the AIG folks, but over a union system that gives the finger to this wealth transferring shennanigan and 401K cheerleading, and chooses to fight for the very benefit you're complaining about. Misery loves company indeed. Don't begrudge those of us who see 401K for what they are and choose to hedge our bets differently. I'd take a taken-over PBGC'ed pension plan any day over an underfunded 401K (is there any other kind?) any day of the week and twice on sunday. And I currently save 25% of my net income and live like a undignified monk if that tells ya anything about my 'self-relicance' and the socialist accusations; I'm a human being not a commodity, I plan on not dying the second I retire like the corporatist state hopes I do (which is why they expect me to put 60 hours a week for life), I plan on living out till my natural death and I expect society to pick up the tab for my productivity, just like I'd do for my parent's generation. You want REAL self-reliance? start paying me in non-inflationary currency and then I'd have snowball chance in hell to fund my own retirement, otherwise it is incumbent on my peers to bail me out, but nobody wants to touch on our deeper economic woes (the dollar and the federal reserve sponsored wage slavery), it's easier to demonize pension holders as 'socialists'....bah.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2008, 01:42 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 89,062,472 times
Reputation: 18195
Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus430 View Post
I have to depend on SS and my 401 savings for income.

Meantime I am paying for State and Federal Employee's health care and pensions through taxes, and now bail out the auto workers? Cool

I know someone that gets a pension from the State (NJ), health care payed for her and her husband (who never worked for the State), and she's retired.

How long does this freebie last?
Does your company match you investing in your 401K? If so when is my money goingto stop paying for your 410K in the guise of higher prices to pay for that input stop.I would bet that same money is what you use to pay your healthcare.Nobody made you go to work for that company and take those total benefits as part of compensation.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2008, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,320 posts, read 17,367,333 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof Woof! View Post
Those of you with kids, at least you have something.

When I get old and sick, I will crawl out into the woods and die.
Even those of us with kids will probably have to join you in the woods. My kids will be paying for all these "bailouts" the Einsteins in WA are concocting on an hourly basis. What morons we elect.

I am wondering how those of you who have a 401K feel about Mrs. Pelosi and Mr. Reid taking over these funds and putting them into a government type account and paying you a whopping 3%. Nothing is safe.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top