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Old 01-09-2009, 02:24 PM
 
1,094 posts, read 2,712,009 times
Reputation: 724

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But, how is any of that even going to help those, like my husband, who has been laid off but doesn't qualify for unemployment. We don't own a home, so miss out in both areas? I realize most people won't agree, but for people in our situation we need cash! We'd prefer a steady job, but can't wait until 2011.I don't know how we'll survive THAT long.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:44 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 19,203,467 times
Reputation: 21285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
I didn't like the part about 600,000 more government employees. Some of the laziest working people I have ever had to deal with, like they are doing me a favor for helping me. But I know they aren't all like that.

And no 10 to 20 dollars a week wouldn't do much for me but I can see where it would others.
What scares me is his prounouncement "ONLY THE GOVERNMENT CAN FIX YOUR PROBLEMS" (I'm talking about his new total $800 billion $ economic plan here, not just the tax cuts). Yeah right. I don't trust the government to do anything right financially. Add more layers of beuracracy, that will fix anything. Add more government intervention. That was a very very scary pronouncement and gives you an immediate clue of the direction of the next 4 or 8 years of this country. A larger central government, more laws, more regulations. Less personal freedom and less individuality are next.

It's ironic that people he and people like him that had admonished previous administrations (not naming names) for the supply side economic theories of deficit spending and trickle down economics during recessions and are now not only repeating it but taking it to a whole new level that can not be believed or was envisioned by economists.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:08 PM
 
Location: 92656, the OC
88 posts, read 293,854 times
Reputation: 77
Default no good at all

Obama's stimulas wont do one bit of good to stimulate the economy and we the tax payers are paying for it and the next up teen generations. We should be able to vote on this. The last stimulas package didnt work and this one wont either. What we need is to lower corp. tax, cut taxes for people who are paying them. Most of his stimulas packages gives money to people who dont hardly pay taxes and they are not the ones to stimulate the economy. We need to give major i mean major tax breaks to businesses, manufacturing plants etc to stay open and here in the united states. We need drilling, we need nuke plants etc that hire regular folks. We need to be able to have our credit restored due to running up our credit cards just to make ends meet and then we lose our jobs and have to take jobs if we can even find them at lets say home depot part time so with this i dont pay my credit card debt because I must pay for my housing, utilities and put food on the table. No one yet has even accounted for all the money the banks got. yet the interest rates are still sky high like 22 to 23 %. The money should have been made to make/force the banks to re do the rates and structure of the bad home loans so people could stay in their houses. it is awful and better yet you all elected a man WHO HAS NO EXPERIENCE I MEAN NON. ARE YOU KIDDING ME AND YOU THINK HE CAN CORRECT THIS YOU AINT SEEN NOTHING YET. WE WILL HAVE A 100% TOTAL COLLAPSE WORSE THAN THE DEPRESSION BEFORE CAPITALISM CAN TAKE OVER AGAIN. TOO MUCH GOV. LEADS TO NOT ALLOWING US TO MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:57 PM
 
371 posts, read 1,441,476 times
Reputation: 184
I see what your saying dldavis but Obama isn't the oneto make all the decisions. I don't think McCain could do a better job either. I think our country was screwed either way and chose the one that they felt was more sincere and honest-if that even exists. I didn't trust McCain and felt Obama has two young children and you think he would try to make things right for them. I am not sure who can get us out of this mess but I don't think more loans is going to help. The bailouts were all BS if you ask me. I believe outsourcing has alot to do with this mess (giving our jobs away so the companies save money and execs get their big bonuses and the little guys lose their jobs to someone in India) ontop of the housing situation. What is the best solution, I don't think anyone has the answer to that. Greed is what cost this country everything.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:32 PM
 
18,324 posts, read 16,262,227 times
Reputation: 7081
Default an easy solution

Suspend the income tax including payroll taxes and the problem is solved, except of course for the financiers who prefer us on the credit treadmill. Deficits DO NOT create debt it causes inflation. Here is how it works.

If government passes money in tax cuts then its inflationary. If we had a 3% unemployment rate and inflation, it would be bad. We don't, so its good.
If government decided to spend it , it may be good if its useful. If the unemployment rate was 3%, government would compete for labor in a tight market which would tend to be bad. Its not, so there is some use for this. Its inflationary which during a depression is good.

Once again deficits do not cause debt, it causes inflation. Government debt is not meant to be paid off, its meant to be circulated as money. Federal Reserve Notes are backed by Federal bonds. No debt, no bonds, no money, depression, starvation, disease and death. How does retiring the national debt sound now?


At such time the economy recovers then the tax may be reintroduced to curb inflation. However the long term solution is a fiat 100% reserve currency without the debt semantics complete with a website and scrolling electronic bill boards showing the money supply.

If you want to know how China fits in then understand when China buys securities it takes dollars out of circulation which is deflationary. Its also real debt to a foreign country. When the Federal Reserve is the buyer it is not debt but inflationary.

Why is this not generally understood to be good? Simple. When tax rebates go to tax payers it causes a wealth transfer to tax payers from financiers. The way they like it is when you go to a bank to increase the money supply which in that case allows them to draw interest. When they can't loan anymore they turn to bailouts and foreclosures. See if you can guess which phase we are in.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:03 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
24,532 posts, read 42,151,315 times
Reputation: 26801
Quote:
Suspend the income tax including payroll taxes and the problem is solved, except of course for the financiers
and those of us who are NOW unemployed and have NO income (UI ran out month's ago) waiting for employers to loosen their belts is similar to waiting for banks... a conservative bunch... I need to pay my $6,000 semi annual property tax SOON... not AFTER someone decides they can hire more people, then interview a few months, then wait for delayed paychecks and healthcare... It can't be soon enough for millions of us who get ZERO impact from a credit to 'with-holdings...' (what's that with no check...)

Not that anything (of benefit) is gonna happen... I'm certainly not waiting for that!
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:58 AM
 
1,566 posts, read 2,840,109 times
Reputation: 1262
obama is fdr2
he sickens me
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:59 AM
 
1,566 posts, read 2,840,109 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Suspend the income tax including payroll taxes and the problem is solved, except of course for the financiers who prefer us on the credit treadmill. Deficits DO NOT create debt it causes inflation. Here is how it works.

If government passes money in tax cuts then its inflationary. If we had a 3% unemployment rate and inflation, it would be bad. We don't, so its good.
If government decided to spend it , it may be good if its useful. If the unemployment rate was 3%, government would compete for labor in a tight market which would tend to be bad. Its not, so there is some use for this. Its inflationary which during a depression is good.

Once again deficits do not cause debt, it causes inflation. Government debt is not meant to be paid off, its meant to be circulated as money. Federal Reserve Notes are backed by Federal bonds. No debt, no bonds, no money, depression, starvation, disease and death. How does retiring the national debt sound now?


At such time the economy recovers then the tax may be reintroduced to curb inflation. However the long term solution is a fiat 100% reserve currency without the debt semantics complete with a website and scrolling electronic bill boards showing the money supply.

If you want to know how China fits in then understand when China buys securities it takes dollars out of circulation which is deflationary. Its also real debt to a foreign country. When the Federal Reserve is the buyer it is not debt but inflationary.

Why is this not generally understood to be good? Simple. When tax rebates go to tax payers it causes a wealth transfer to tax payers from financiers. The way they like it is when you go to a bank to increase the money supply which in that case allows them to draw interest. When they can't loan anymore they turn to bailouts and foreclosures. See if you can guess which phase we are in.

great post
sure would be nice if the govt stopped robbing us thru inflation and occasionally threw 500 or 1000 bucks at us while they **** away all the money they tax on nothing
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:14 AM
 
18,324 posts, read 16,262,227 times
Reputation: 7081
Quote:
Originally Posted by janb View Post
and those of us who are NOW unemployed and have NO income (UI ran out month's ago) waiting for employers to loosen their belts is similar to waiting for banks... a conservative bunch... I need to pay my $6,000 semi annual property tax SOON... not AFTER someone decides they can hire more people, then interview a few months, then wait for delayed paychecks and healthcare... It can't be soon enough for millions of us who get ZERO impact from a credit to 'with-holdings...' (what's that with no check...)

Not that anything (of benefit) is gonna happen... I'm certainly not waiting for that!
Hi janb,

Include tax credits and certainly some public works would create jobs.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 74,627,262 times
Reputation: 27602
gwynedd1 - Public works would be a good answer but I think Obama is planning to dole out the money to the private sector to "create more jobs". If that happens most of the money will disappear to bolster balance sheets and very little will work it's way into the economy.

I do hope Obama puts some rules and restrictions in place though to make sure this big stimulus package doesn't end up like the bailout bill where the money went to the banks and stopped there or worse such as an increase of offshore jobs to grab the cheap employment.
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