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Sometimes in the morning while I'm driving to work. I tend to wish I would fall asleep at the wheel, jump a ditch, and have a tree limb go through my windshield and into my skull.
Below are the percentage of the 2008 undergraduate class (elite schools) that came from the top 10% of their high school class:
Harvard 95%
Yale 95%
Princeton 94%
Penn 96%
Columbia 94%
Brown 94%
Dartmouth 90%
Cornell 87%
Stanford 92%
MIT 97%
CalTech 97%
You can whine all you want about connections, preferential treatment for legacy / URM applicants, but the numbers do not lie. Give me the stats for the legacies and URM numbers and I guarantee you that many of them also graduated in the top 10% of their HS class as well.
If the kid from the state school really was smart, he would be able to ace his GMAT and get into HBS or Wharton for his MBA. But out of undergrad, he is at a disadvantage. If he really was smart, why wasn't he at an elite school to begin with? Don't talk to me about lack of money - many of them give 100% financial aid if the parents make under 60K.
Class rank doesn't mean **** when it comes to intelligence. I have met plenty of people who were in the top 10% just because they knew how to talk teachers into giving them a higher grade when they didn't deserve it (especially in high school when teachers have more intimate relationships with students), or simply because they spent more time on schoolwork than other people. Getting good grades does take intelligence, no doubt about that, but I'd argue that a lot of it is sheer hard work and having the patience/attention span to study for hours to get the grade necessary. Believe me, I graduated in the top 15 out of 500+ person class, and I'm far from the smartest guy around. I can think of at least 10 people that are much smarter than me that I had a better rank/GPA than.
Secondly, GMAT and GPA have a lot less to do with getting into a good MBA. MBA admissions are mostly about work experience and how you interview with GMAT/GPA coming in well after that. So the ivy leaguer that got a job at Goldman for no good reason other than the fact that he's connected will have better work experience and thus will have a better shot at HBS. Check any reputable discussing MBAs, and all of them will agree with me that a guy that gets a 680 and a 3.5 with a job at Goldman will fare better than a 710, 3.7 from an average company. MBA is not the same as law or medicine which are more numbers-based (law especially).
Why all the accounting haters on this board? If you hate your job so much, then CHANGE jobs, MOVE on, do something about it rather that just whine and complain about it on here. Or even go back to school and get a new degree, I don't care because I'm sure you would hate your new career just as much as you do accounting. You have to start at the bottom and work your way up in accounting...it's not all peaches and roses at times, but once you get a few years experience under your belt then your options are endless. I am a CPA and love the prestige and respect that comes with that designation. I wouldn't change it for anything. In contrast, tell someone that you're a lawyer and see what kind of response you get.
Why all the accounting haters on this board? If you hate your job so much, then CHANGE jobs, MOVE on, do something about it rather that just whine and complain about it on here. Or even go back to school and get a new degree,
Are you paying for it? No? Ok, then shut up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC71111
You have to start at the bottom and work your way up in accounting...it's not all peaches and roses at times, but once you get a few years experience under your belt then your options are endless.
Actually, until you get a CPA, the options are extremely limited to staff positions, and a remote chance you might slide in to a senior position if you are there about 10 years. I have almost 4 years of experience, and I have no more options then I had when I first started.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC71111
I am a CPA and love the prestige and respect that comes with that designation. I wouldn't change it for anything.
What prestige and respect? Noone respects you, they just need you to sign their tax forms. Accountants are viewed as a neccessary evil in almost any business, and if they could possibly operate without an accounting staff, they would cut you completely.
Actually, until you get a CPA, the options are extremely limited to staff positions, and a remote chance you might slide in to a senior position if you are there about 10 years. I have almost 4 years of experience, and I have no more options then I had when I first started.
What prestige and respect? Noone respects you, they just need you to sign their tax forms. Accountants are viewed as a neccessary evil in almost any business, and if they could possibly operate without an accounting staff, they would cut you completely.
Randomdude: Well, you know, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. You sound like some angry person who wouldn't be happy no matter what you choose to do. I hope you find what you're looking for.
For everyone else: I can't imagine why someone would choose to enter the accounting profession but not choose to pursue their CPA designation. It would be like someone entering nursing school only to get their LPN license instead of going for their RN license. It really limits your salary and career opportunities. To each their own, I guess.
Randomdude: Well, you know, that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. You sound like some angry person who wouldn't be happy no matter what you choose to do. I hope you find what you're looking for.
Actually, Id be just fine doing alot of things, the problem is, not many of them pay the bills, which is why I didnt go to school to become a historian or archeologist. Paying the bills is my first priority, work satisfaction is far behind that. Of all the things my finance degree qualifies me to do in Norfolk, VA, accounting is the most lucrative without needing years of experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC71111
For everyone else: I can't imagine why someone would choose to enter the accounting profession but not choose to pursue their CPA designation. It would be like someone entering nursing school only to get their LPN license instead of going for their RN license. It really limits your salary and career opportunities. To each their own, I guess.
This is probably because not only is the CPA one of the most difficult and expensive designations to maintain, it now requires a masters degree or equivalent credit load to sit for it in most states.
Accounting is a very demanding job and can be stressful, but if you find the right company to work for it can be enjoyable. It is about finding the right fit for you.
I'm only guessing that most of it comes from the limited viewpionts that all accountants are limited to public accounting or bookkeeping. That would be like narrowing the scope of the finance profession to stock brokers (you are a salesman, I don't care what anyone says) and financial analysts.
There are actually many professions in the accounting field that are more lucrative and rewarding. Among those are Managerial/Corporate Accounting, Financial Accounting, and Forensic Accounting.
Managerial accountants are generally your controllers up through CFO, and are the right hand of management in most any large company. Very few financial decisions are made without consulting the accountant. You will find that controller positions range from $80,000 up to $180,000/year, not including bonus/options/benefits. A CPA is NOT a prerequisite, at least in my company (Fortune 300). You will also find that the most common degree among Fortune 500 CFO's is Accounting.
Your financial accountants are the people who provide the financial information that I-bankers, venture capitalists, or investment houses use to make their decisions. You will also find that many of them serve a dual purpose role as financial analysts, and get paid similar salaries as their banking counterparts.
Forensic accounting is relatively new, and in my opinion quite exciting. This profession investigates white collar crime, participates in corporate litigation, money laundering, fraud, ect. It is growing quite rapidly in this age of SOX and increased Corporate regulation. I am not quite educated on what the average salaries are, but my educated guess is that it will only increase. Especially for those that have international exposure.
This thread is pretty hilarious... where to start....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Are you paying for it? No? Ok, then shut up.
Years back when you were in college, did someone hold a gun to your head and say "Get an accounting degree or I'll kill you"? No? Then maybe you might want to tone it down a bit and take a long, hard look in the mirror; it was your choice. I know people who have gone through the effort to go back to school mid-career for something they felt was better. And I know people who probably have it way worse than you for reasons that truly were beyond their control - and they don't whine much.
It's like this, people: accounting is good for some people, and it's not good for others. It all depends on you and what you want out of life. I know some people who work in accounting and like it a lot; I know others who don't. I also know some people who like steak and others who are vegetarians. I also know people who were fancy I-bankers in New York who walked away from it because they couldn't stand it any longer and are happier now making less than half of what they used to pull in on a top year. The world is a pretty diverse place; just because you think it sucks doesn't mean that is the case for everyone.
There are also many different places people with accounting degrees can go. You don't JUST have to spend your life posting entries. If you get into a large, stable company and people find that you're good, you can actually laterally move into certain compatible areas. I know people who had an accounting degree and then move into HR or sales force operations - or moved laterally to Marketing. I work in FP&A in a large tech company, and I like it a lot. Sure, there are quite a few accounting aspects to it but also a lot of other things that aren't just debits and credits. I don't feel like I'm limited, and most of my peers are making somewhere around $85k to low $100s base salary before bonus comp - certainly not I-banker millions, but decent.
My fiancee has an accounting degree and she's a manager overseeing managed care and wholesaler strategy for a pharma company - not at all direct accounting anymore. And, by the way, she's not yet 30, doesn't even have an MBA, and didn't go to Harvard - and she manages people twice her age and makes a hell of a lot more than most of the top tier school people in her company. Why? Because she's damn good at what she does. Sure, lots of smart people come from top schools, but it's patently unwise to become so obsessed with rankings to the point where anyone else must automatically be assumed an inferior dolt. Like I said, the world is a big place with all kinds of different people...you wouldn't know it from this thread, though...
I'm only guessing that most of it comes from the limited viewpionts that all accountants are limited to public accounting or bookkeeping. That would be like narrowing the scope of the finance profession to stock brokers (you are a salesman, I don't care what anyone says) and financial analysts.
There are actually many professions in the accounting field that are more lucrative and rewarding. Among those are Managerial/Corporate Accounting, Financial Accounting, and Forensic Accounting.
Managerial accountants are generally your controllers up through CFO, and are the right hand of management in most any large company. Very few financial decisions are made without consulting the accountant. You will find that controller positions range from $80,000 up to $180,000/year, not including bonus/options/benefits. A CPA is NOT a prerequisite, at least in my company (Fortune 300). You will also find that the most common degree among Fortune 500 CFO's is Accounting.
Your financial accountants are the people who provide the financial information that I-bankers, venture capitalists, or investment houses use to make their decisions. You will also find that many of them serve a dual purpose role as financial analysts, and get paid similar salaries as their banking counterparts.
Forensic accounting is relatively new, and in my opinion quite exciting. This profession investigates white collar crime, participates in corporate litigation, money laundering, fraud, ect. It is growing quite rapidly in this age of SOX and increased Corporate regulation. I am not quite educated on what the average salaries are, but my educated guess is that it will only increase. Especially for those that have international exposure.
Just curious, do you work as an accountant? If so, do you enjoy it?
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