Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The media, parents and education experts are always trying to blame the individual teachers for the failure of our schools in America. But in this article Robert Samuelson, the Journalist and Economist, has a different viewpoint. He believes that much of the blame can be traced to lack of student motivation. The students are just not interested in doing well. They are bored and just making it through the day and see no reason to be engaged in class. Of course the critics of teachers will say it is still the educators fault because they are not able to find a way to motivate the students and force them to be engaged in class. But is this even possible with today's crazy social culture and totally unmotivated students?
Please read the attached article and tell me what you think:
I think the problem is that people very frequently do not respect academic achievement, intelligence, learning, scholarship; it's considered "snobby" (which is not a word, BTW!!). I'm not referring to anything fake, but genuine things that anyone with a library card can develop, if they so chose.
I've been on a couple of dates with males in my youth, and when I mention computers, or use the word "film" instead of "movie," these men told me that it turned them off, and indicated we had nothing in common and they would not want to date me further. And countless times, in online forums, there have been people who have absolutely detested me, called me a snob, told me that I think I'm better than everyone else -- based, I guess, on my interest in using language accurately, on thinking clearly, on reading widely.
To accuse me of snobbery is so unfair, however; while my mother was a budding writer and careful user of language herself, my background is distinctly lower middle-class and the people I associated with growing up were impoverished minorities. Probably a third of them are dead now from drug or alcohol, or they're in prison or have been in prison. What saved me is being a bookworm and studying music. I learned ethics from reading Bertrand Russell and Spinoza. I went to a really fine undergraduate program; I know what true snobbery is. I'm not a snob.
But many people perceive me as that, which has always hurt me deeply. Some of the online foes have made a point of following me from place to place, denigrating me in public in whatever ways they can. One fellow who runs a forum on fiddle music banned me from the forum for using the term "art music" -- as if it were some sort of insult, rather than a term of art in musicology which simply means non-folk music and is not, and was not meant to be, insulting to him or to anyone; the phrase is used on innumerable pages of any standard textbook in musicology.
My point is that there are many people who resent anyone who, by whatever methods, tries to learn as much about the world as they can, develop academic skills to as high a level as they can, or who remains open to new evidence with respect to their views. This general tendency in the public schools (i.e., the negativity associated with being a "brainiac" or "acting white" in the case of African American kids), is what is drawing down the general level.
Last edited by scsigurl3000; 09-12-2010 at 06:11 AM..
"The reality is that, as high schools have become more inclusive (in 1950, 40 percent of 17-year-olds had dropped out, compared with about 25 percent today) and adolescent culture has strengthened, the authority of teachers and schools has eroded."
BINGO!!! The, prevailing, attitude I see in schools is an us against them mentality in students. As long as I'm the enemy, and they are motivated to improve their status in adolescent culture, we have a tough row to hoe. If the teacher can't infiltrate the ranks or, at least, be seen as someone who can help the students achieve what they want to achieve, it's going to be a struggle.
I'm fortunate that I was just hired by a district where the parents keep on the kids to do well. They may or may not be motivated by me but they are motivated to avoid getting grounded for the weekend. Most of my students are motivated to do well, if for no other reason, to get into a good college. College is expected of them and I don't think they have any clue how to navigate life if they deviate from that plan. Needless to say, test scores are very high in this district. I'm willing to bet I will have an easier year than last year when I was in a charter school where half of my students did not care and you gained prestige in the student culture by being the bad ass.
I think the problem is that people very frequently do not respect academic achievement, intelligence, learning, scholarship; it's considered "snobby" (which is not a word, BTW!!). I'm not referring to anything fake, but genuine things that anyone with a library card can develop, if they so chose.
I've been on a couple of dates with males in my youth, and when I mention computers, or use the word "film" instead of "movie," these men told me that it turned them off, and indicated we had nothing in common and they would not want to date me further. And countless times, in online forums, there have been people who have absolutely detested me, called me a snob, told me that I think I'm better than everyone else -- based, I guess, on my interest in using language accurately, on thinking clearly, on reading widely.
To accuse me of snobbery is so unfair, however; while my mother was a budding writer and careful user of language herself, my background is distinctly lower middle-class and the people I associated with growing up were impoverished minorities. Probably a third of them are dead now from drug or alcohol, or they're in prison or have been in prison. What saved me is being a bookworm and studying music. I learned ethics from reading Bertrand Russell and Spinoza. I went to a really fine undergraduate program; I know what true snobbery is. I'm not a snob.
But many people perceive me as that, which has always hurt me deeply. Some of the online foes have made a point of following me from place to place, denigrating me in public in whatever ways they can. One fellow who runs a forum on fiddle music banned me from the forum for using the term "art music" -- as if it were some sort of insult, rather than a term of art in musicology which simply means non-folk music and is not, and was not meant to be, insulting to him or to anyone; the phrase is used on innumerable pages of any standard textbook in musicology.
My point is that there are many people who resent anyone who, by whatever methods, tries to learn as much about the world as they can, develop academic skills to as high a level as they can, or who remains open to new evidence with respect to their views. This general tendency in the public schools (i.e., the negativity associated with being a "brainiac" or "acting white" in the case of African American kids), is what is drawing down the general level.
Actually, it's the students who don't appreciate these things and their culture is strong. Last year, I learned, the hard way, that while I want to win the battle with a student, he MUST win the battle to save face with his peers. I will lose even if I'm 100% right. If something is not considered desirable by the student culture, it is very hard to motivate the students to learn it.
Michigan has chemistry/physics for all and most schools are requiring chemistry for graduation. Traditionally, only about the top 30% of students (this would have been after that 40% drop out rate was applied) would take chemistry. This leaves me with a, signficant, percentage of students who do not want to be in my class. If the student culture rejects my class, thinks it is unnecessary, and many students don't want to be there, I have an uphill battle.
The student culture in a school sets the stage. It declares what is desirable and what is to be rejected. Too often, this culture sees school as something forced upon unwilling students. While individual students have no control, the group does and they know it. They look to their leadership to determine how they should approach something and if their leadership rejects what you're selling, you're fighting a losing battle. The challenge, for teachers, is to find what is important to them and, somehow, use that to teach.
As I said, I'm lucky in that I'm in a district where most of the students are headed to 4 year universities at graduation. They want a good score on the state tests that can help them get into the college of their choice. I, pretty much, just have to say "this will help you in college..." and I have the majority of my class on board. Sometimes, the answer to the question "When will I ever use this" for chemistry is "In College". If my students aren't college bound (and many weren't last year), that answer will not suffice.
You are correct that anyone who values what the prevailing culture does not is seen as undesirable. Since it is often parents and teachers pushing learning, accepting and valuing learning is seen as jumping sides. Even in my day, kids who wanted to please the teacher were "Teacher's pets". The rejection of students who embrace learning is even stronger now. Kids have to have a lot of self confidence to stand against the crowd.
I count my lucky stars that my students now care about graduation and getting into good colleges. My job just got 90% easier. The first week of school went 20 times better than my first week last year. I am just not THAT teacher who can motivate the unmotivated. Fortunately, I have content area expertise that is desirable in better districts.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-12-2010 at 07:12 AM..
Well that's essentially what I'm talking about, too; the mob rule. Russell put it this way:
There is an idea that rubbing up against all and sundry in youth is a good preparation for life. This appears to me to be rubbish. No one, in later life, associates with all and sundry....In later life a man's occupation and status give an indication of his interests and capacities.
Bertrand Russell. Education and the Modern World. W.W. Norton, New York. 1932, p. 166-67.
.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 09-14-2010 at 06:27 AM..
Reason: a snippet on this site is 3 sentences quoted.
Well that's essentially what I'm talking about, too; the mob rule. Russell put it this way:
There is an idea that rubbing up against all and sundry in youth is a good preparation for life. This appears to me to be rubbish. No one, in later life, associates with all and sundry....In later life a man's occupation and status give an indication of his interests and capacities.
Bertrand Russell. Education and the Modern World. W.W. Norton, New York. 1932, p. 166-67.
.
Sorry, didn't mean to come across as disgreeing with you. Everything you posted involved peer to peer judgements.
Yup. Peer pressure rules. Later in life, we form our own families and succumb less to peer pressure. Sadly, many decisions we make when under the influence of peer pressure can come back to haunt us.
There is a reason it is the student who can stand alone who succeeds. Being able to stand on your own two feet is a trait that leads to success later in life when the group and mob mentality have disbanded. Teens, unfortunatley, live in NOW. There is no convincing them that high school will pass and everything will change once they're out of college.
A really good book that deals with this topic is "The Nurture Assumption". Peers matter more than parents if parents and peers are at odds. One of the biggest contributions parents make to kids is choosing where they grow up because that limits their choices for peers. If all my children's friends come from families that push education and are headed to college, I just increased the odds of my child doing well in school and going to college without lifting a finger.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 09-14-2010 at 06:27 AM..
Reason: edited quote
No, I knew you weren't disagreeing with me; I just wanted to add the Bertrand Russell quote.
One of my private students whom I sent on to what I was hoping was a teacher with more political pull than myself, not only did not pursue the teacher I wanted them to, but has chosen to go to a tenth rate school on the Mexican border, and also has gotten into an interpersonal conflict with the youth symphony director. Student is acting if they have some legitimate input into the issue, when they have none whatsoever.
Schools, and orchestras in particular, are not democracies but rather, benevolent dictatorships. Who this little martian thinks he is, I have no idea, but he has not gone in the direction I wanted him to, after working with him for about six years. He still doesn't make the effort to spell, his decision making is poor, and the level he finds acceptable with respect to his playing, is not going to get him anywhere. As a teacher, no matter how hard you work, your influence is still limited.
No, I knew you weren't disagreeing with me; I just wanted to add the Bertrand Russell quote.
One of my private students whom I sent on to what I was hoping was a teacher with more political pull than myself, not only did not pursue the teacher I wanted them to, but has chosen to go to a tenth rate school on the Mexican border, and also has gotten into an interpersonal conflict with the youth symphony director. Student is acting if they have some legitimate input into the issue, when they have none whatsoever.
Schools, and orchestras in particular, are not democracies but rather, benevolent dictatorships. Who this little martian thinks he is, I have no idea, but he has not gone in the direction I wanted him to, after working with him for about six years. He still doesn't make the effort to spell, his decision making is poor, and the level he finds acceptable with respect to his playing, is not going to get him anywhere. As a teacher, no matter how hard you work, your influence is still limited.
Yup. We'll hit it right with some students but we won't with others. All we can do there is hope another teacher is the one for this student.
I wish kids could see how the decisions they make today impact their futures. Unfortunately, they live in NOW and being as "OLD" as 25 is just, EONS, away, lol. They just don't think about it. At least most don't. I have one who does and one who lives in NOWVILLE. The one who does doesn't care what her peers think. She's preparing for a future that will last much longer than high school. Most kids don't realize how short 4 years are until they're gone.
Part of the problem is that American culture considers academic success to be the result of native intelligence rather than hard work. Ask any student if they would rather be thought of as smart or hard-working and they will choose smart every time. They think that working hard means you are stupid.
This is not true in other cultures. Talent and intelligence are helpful, but hard work can make up for a lot.
I think teaching has changed. Our culture has changed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yup. Peer pressure rules. Later in life, we form our own families and succumb less to peer pressure. Sadly, many decisions we make when under the influence of peer pressure can come back to haunt us. 
