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Our perception of the teacher has changed dramatically, too. When I was a child, if I was punished by the teacher for misbehaving, being tardy, etc, my parents always took the side of the teacher. In other words, I was the one who had to defend myself, and I didn't get much sympathy.
Today, however, things have reversed course; the parents get angry with the teacher, saying " my Justin could never do such a thing" ( name changed to reflect popular names of today--no more Johnny); make threatening motions toward the teacher ( "I'll have your job", "I'll sue the school system", etc), and generally never find fault with their children.
You love to pull that Newsweek article out every time we talk about Minneapolis schools and that article is worthless. You are comparing the IB students in Minneapolis to all of the students in the suburban schools. You are also ONLY comparing the kids that TAKE the IB/AP tests that is in no way indicative of how good the schools are. I will take the 49% graduation rate of the Minneapolis schools (or 7% if you go to North) compared to the 90+% in ALL of the suburban schools as a more telling statistic any day (if you want to compare schools based on just one statistic only that is).
Again, it is NOT the teachers that make the Minneapolis schools "bad" it is the general make-up of the student population and the overall apathy toward education in the majority of the families that send their kids to Minneapolis schools. You can go on thinking that the Minneapolis schools are so great but go spend some REAL time in the suburban schools and you will see the difference quite clearly.
Just for the record I DO have personal experience with the Minneapolis schools-I had to do a 3 week practicum at several of the schools and even back then they in no way compared to the suburban schools I attended or did practicums (or the rural schools for that matter). I also have plenty of friends that attended Minneapolis schools that would NEVER send their kids there because they feel they got a substandard education there (mostly at SW too). Sorry, you will never convince me that any school in Minneapolis comes close to comparing to the top suburban schools, Newsweek bogus poll or not.
Just for the record, by ALL accounts Southwest is a great school -- you have repeatedly misrepresented the Newsweek article and made erroneous assertions -- assertions that have repeatedly and clearly been discounted. I HAVE spent time in suburban schools, and I have friends who are teachers who have had significant problems with your schools. I don't care what you think or not about Minneapolis Public Schools (although I hope you're not too stressed if you realize that many of my fellow classmates might be your doctor, vet, teachers, professors, accountants, lawyers, etc. -- we've done pretty well for ourselves), but think it IS misleading and, well, flat-out wrong to make such assertions on a forum that is used by those seeking to relocate. I also think it would be wrong for me to let such flat-out incorrect assertions go unchallenged. And since your high school's test scores and other scores are about identical to my old school's (other than things like number of Merit Scholars produced in the past five years -- Southwest comes out far ahead on that count) I think it's pretty fair to say that there's not such a big difference after all. School IS what you make of it (assuming that things like good teachers, access to good classes, etc. are all available), and a school with active, involved parents is going to be successful. You spend some REAL time at my neighborhood high school and you try to tell me that all those kids -- kids who are headed for the top schools next fall -- are somehow different than the kids in your district. It's not so simple. Looking at districts and not individual schools is a waste of time, as we all know (or should know). That goes for ANY district, not just Minneapolis or any other city.
To bring this back to the original question, a student's success depends on a wide range of factors, as does a student's failures. Schools need to be able to serve the needs of their students (of ALL levels), teachers need to be able and equipped to do their jobs, parents need to send their kids to school ready to learn, and society as a whole needs to be doing its part (politicians, voters, taxpayers, general community members, the media, everyone) to make sure that everything is in place to make sure that things are working right so that the kids CAN learn.
Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 10-19-2010 at 06:42 PM..
Our perception of the teacher has changed dramatically, too. When I was a child, if I was punished by the teacher for misbehaving, being tardy, etc, my parents always took the side of the teacher. In other words, I was the one who had to defend myself, and I didn't get much sympathy.
Today, however, things have reversed course; the parents get angry with the teacher, saying " my Justin could never do such a thing" ( name changed to reflect popular names of today--no more Johnny); make threatening motions toward the teacher ( "I'll have your job", "I'll sue the school system", etc), and generally never find fault with their children.
Or so it seems..
Part of the problem you are describing - and with which I agree 100% - is the post-modern rhetoric of "every child is SOOOO different!".
Parents and everyone else have been convinced that every child has a completely unique "learning style", a completely unique "way of doing things", you name it - and that it is the school, the teacher, the method, the class, the environment etc. that don't "fit" with the amazing "uniqueness" and special personality of their child, as opposed to the child simply learning to adjust, adapt, learn what needs to be learned and live in the world (which is the very purpose of socialization -and by extention, education - in the first place).
So if something doesn't go right, it is the school/the teacher that doesn't understand how to deal with the child (so their fault!) - hence parents' vituperative reactions.
While I am not as absurd to deny the existence and importance of individual differences, such differences are not even remotely as deterministic as people today believe they are.
Are schools to blame or is is the child's parent not educating the child at home?
Consider this. Two centuries ago children were able to learn to read, write, and do arithmetic in one room school houses without the help of computers or fancy textbooks, etc. Today children have far, far more resources, including professionally-trained teachers.
The schools and the teachers are not the root cause of the problem. The problem is that many parents are simply not raising their children properly, either because they lack the financial and/or mental means to do so or they simply do not care.
Ummm...doesn't it have something to do with what passes for education nowdays? My dd 13 knows all about mastrubation (thanks to the school system), but can't multiply 12 x 10 in her head.
Ummm...doesn't it have something to do with what passes for education nowdays? My dd 13 knows all about mastrubation (thanks to the school system), but can't multiply 12 x 10 in her head.
Ok, not all kids are able to math in their head-although this is a pretty simple problem. That isn't always the fault of the school system but if they are not teaching the concepts, that is an issue. Our kids spent most of 3rd grade math doing multiplication tables, 2 of my kids can do a lot of math in their heads, one can not. DH can do calculus in his head, I add on my fingers but that is me, not the schools . DH can't punctuate a sentence correctly either but again, that is him, not the schools.
I think its mainly the fault of the parents. i am a parent to two boys who are good kids. They are on top of the homework(most of the time), they respect their elders, they never get bad discipline reports and I have never been called into the principals office. Why?
Because we try to instill responsibility, respect, and to treat everyone as you would like to be treated.
Unfortuantely I am backwards in my opinions and raising my kids according to old fashioned sentiment. I think it has to come from home; the rest will follow forever. You cannot teach respect and responisbility when the kids are teenagers ; its a loosing battle. However, you can start when they are young and it will stay with them for life.
^ I don't think that's "old-fashioned", or at least out of style; all of my friends are doing their best to raise their kids to be respectful and responsible. I agree that it comes from the parents, though, and obviously there are parents who don't seem to place a value on raising responsible, respectful children.
One thing about today versus years past: today we are trying to educate kids who in the past would have had no or very little formal education. We're trying to do a lot more now than ever before. Of course it's also necessary: today's kids have far fewer opportunities if they don't have at least a high school education. Even many vocational careers require that. You really NEED that basic education and high school degree to have much shot at having a job that will keep you and your family above the poverty line.
Ummm...doesn't it have something to do with what passes for education nowdays? My dd 13 knows all about mastrubation (thanks to the school system), but can't multiply 12 x 10 in her head.
The school specifically teacheas a 13 yo about masturbation?
Lordy, I am in for a rough ride.
Depends. What grade levels are we talking about. I'd say preschool - 2nd grade is mostly the school. However, overall, I'd say...
The basic subjects (English or native language, Reading and Writing) is 70% home & 30% school. It should be started @ home, enhanced @ school and re-enforced back @ home.
Skilled subjects (math, science, accounting, etc.) are 70% school & 30% home. Not everone is strong in these subjects, so the school should be the primary leaders in this area. However, the parents are responsible for ensuring kids grasp this through researching to help their kids or by getting them resources outside of school to help them.
Critical thinking is 10% home and 90% school. Schools should know or be working with think tanks, consultants and businesses to determine the skills of the future and developing curriculums that elicit and nurture these skill sets.
Behavior is 100000000% home. Teachers do not have time to play warden, teach etiquette, or play psychiatrist to your child. You don't have to be rich to give them a loving spirit, discipline or common sense.
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. DH can't punctuate a sentence correctly either but again, that is him, not the schools.
