Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-24-2010, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
Reputation: 14692

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes. It's been documented.
I don't doubt it. I had a kid, last year, who picked his nose in class and wiped it on the desk top. I've had kids who no one wanted to sit next to because they didn't take baths or brush their teeth, and I'm willing to bet many don't wash their hands after using the rest room. I think kids spread germs faster than friends on facebook.

I keep an industrial sized bottle of hand sanitizer in my room....Before I started using hand sanitizer 30 times a day, I was getting sick all the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-24-2010, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
This article suggests that the children have changed in the way that they learn. Being plugged-in 24/7 is changing the way their brains develop. Schools should be preparing students for the world they will live in as adults.

Growing Up Digital, Wired for Distraction

In our school, at least, that is not happening. The teacher next door to me has had a Smart Board in her room for a year now with a note taped on it saying "Do not write on the Board". She writes around it on the white board, using the only technology she knows. She still giggles about being computer illiterate, which I liken to not using phones in the 1960s.

A few years ago, I found a video on YouTube that one of my students had uploaded from her homeroom. It was more than a bit vulgar, and I asked him to take it down, because it could get her in a lot of trouble. I also asked him not to EVER take any video in my room. He complied on both counts. Many months later, she asked me why I never said anything to her about it. I didn't want to tell her that she probably would have made the situation worse. If he had gotten in trouble, there is no end to the mischief he could have wreaked because his tech prowess far exceeds that of most school staff. This experience is one of the main reasons that I don't tolerate phones in the classroom.

Our students are much more tech-savvy than most teachers, and their experiences with technology are changing the ways in which their brains work. It makes sense to adapt our content and pedagogy to maximize the effectiveness of our students' educational experiences. This is where training in 21st Century Learning can come in handy for teachers. The Intel Teach program is excellent for teachers who are interested in implementing the kinds of learning that will engage tech-savvy kids.
Well, if there are issues stemming from being plugged in 24 x 7, a white board won't be much use anyway. I'll admit I'm new to using mine but it seems nothing more than a digital white board and power point combined. While I like it because I can repeat the same lecture six times without rewriting everything, and can go back to what I did before if there are questions, I see no advantage of this over the slide presentations my professors used when I was in college besides the time to put those together (I can do a smartboard presentation for my six classes in 30 minutes - IF I'm not importing a power point...THAT is a PITA.). It is an easier tool for me. I can export my lectures and put them on my website for review by students and myself when I write tests. It's, certainly, not the type of 30 second sound byte digital entertainment they have grown up on.

I would hope a teacher would let me know if a student videotaped me and put it on the web. THAT is an invasion of privacy that needs to be dealt with. Just because you take a video in a public place does not give you the right to put it up on the web. Not understanding things like not having the right to do this is a problem for this generation. It's not fun and games once you publish it. Once on the web, it's permanent. Even if the student takes it down, copies can be floating around.

I don't have time to read the article now but will later. I'll comment on it then. Seems if this is a problem for education it will also be a problem in the work world as the work world isn't about exciting graphics and 30 second sound bytes either. I have friends still in engineering and it's still common to work with real people for days on end to solve a problem... no technicolor graphics involved.... These kids are not going out into a world like the games they're plugged into. Far from it.

Just took a glance at the article. I agree kids are distracted but I don't think the solution is that education needs to change. I think it's their behavior that needs to change. That, unfortunately, is up to the parents. We have Safe Eyes on our home computers and if my kids' grades are not up to par, their time on the internet gets cut. I also like the neat little on line feature for reporting a lost phone.....My dd's seems to get "lost" when her homework isn't getting done (I have had the cell phone company ask about this but I figure I pay enough that they can just deal with me shutting her phone off when I feel I need to).

If kids are growing up with their brains wiring for distraction, we need to be teaching them how not to be distracted. That does not require education to change. It requires us to stick to our guns and demand that kids actually read the book. My students complain right and left because I require reading notes before I lecture on material. I've had several parents applaud this effort. The kids don't like it but they need it. Those who do it, argue that they never read the notes again. I just smile and say "They did their job..." or ask them if they are succeeding. If they say yes, I ask them whether they think they should keep on doing the things they did to succeed?

I don't doubt that technology is creating a problem but I don't think that expecting teachers to use and compete with that technolgy is the answer. I could put all the chemistry I want on my facebook page and I'm willing to bet it would get ignored. I, really, think what we need to be doing is focusing on teaching kids the skills they are not learning and one of them is staying on task. You do that by giving them tasks that require them to stay on task not by putting things on web pages and face book.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 11-24-2010 at 07:36 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2010, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
How do regular salad bars stay in business if there are so many germs? I'm sure you've eaten at a buffett style restaurant before. Are we assuming school children are dirty, unkempt, and spread germs easier than the general public. What about germs riding the subway or taking the bus. Or in public bathrooms?

Why have schools and what's available to the general population diverged so much in the last 10-15-20 years? Funny how everyone outside of school clamors for low fat, low sodium, sugar free, etc. People are always on the look out for the next health craze, or healthy food. Yet what do you see at most schools? We keep pushing sugar, sugar, sugar.

-About what's archaic in school, I would argue 35 or 50 years ago. The cost of living in this country was much, much lower.A highschool diploma had true weight and merit. You could afford to study subjects that you may never use again. Part of why students then saw education as a privilege was because it had value in the market place.

There were the have's (highschool and college educated) and the have not's. The have's could study hard and be rewarded for their degree in the marketplace. The have nots could sit on the street and be punished for their lack of work ethic.

But then some brilliant politican came along..."but everyone should be a have! It's the american dream. Everyone should be equal!! Hail, hail, hail." Why should students think of highschool as a great privilege if they can't support their family with a highschool diploma after they graduate? How many people could support a family in 1965 with a highschool diploma vs today?

"We're screaming for education to do something different" because we're 18th in the world in math and 22nd in the world in science (or whatever the numbers are). People want change because results are not where they could (and should) be. Where I live, the dropout rate is 35%?!! That's outrageous and unacceptable.

High school dropout rate climbs to 34.9% | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

Social skills and public speaking should be part of the highschool cirriculum. You couldn't sequester yourself in 1960 on the internet, myspace, facebook the way you can now. You have always had shy and outgoing people. But it's much easier now to go through life with less human contact than before. Social skills, public speaking, and health (and wellness) issues should be a 1/4 of the cirriculum. Throw out archaic books like lord of the flies, the grapes of wrath.

What's archaic are the books being used. They are backwards looking. Why isn't a book like the 4th turning being taught? Funny how everyone clamors for the truth after getting out of school. Through new age, self help books. Quasi-religious. But none of them are introduced in school.
We won't improve our numbers in math and science until our students are willing to study like their counterparts abroad. I keep telling my dd's that they will be one up on their peers because they can sit down an complete a task, because they can focus on a project, because they have taken the time to learn.

One problem I see is kids want instant gratification. They see no value in learning algebra today so they can learn calculus tomorrow and get a degree with some meat on it's bones. That's too far off. They lack goals beyond Friday night.

It's going to be interesting when they are adults. I wonder how they will adapt the the work world. I'm to the point that I think we need to pay for grades. The work world gets compliance because there is an instant reward. A paycheck. Kids don't seem intrinsically motivated by good grades. Perhaps we need to try what tutoring centers do. Let kids earn points that are good for things they value.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2010, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,889,137 times
Reputation: 2762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
We won't improve our numbers in math and science until our students are willing to study like their counterparts abroad. I keep telling my dd's that they will be one up on their peers because they can sit down an complete a task, because they can focus on a project, because they have taken the time to learn.

One problem I see is kids want instant gratification. They see no value in learning algebra today so they can learn calculus tomorrow and get a degree with some meat on it's bones. That's too far off. They lack goals beyond Friday night.

It's going to be interesting when they are adults. I wonder how they will adapt the the work world. I'm to the point that I think we need to pay for grades. The work world gets compliance because there is an instant reward. A paycheck. Kids don't seem intrinsically motivated by good grades. Perhaps we need to try what tutoring centers do. Let kids earn points that are good for things they value.
I wasn't far off on my figures.

U.S. Teens Trail Peers Around World on Math-Science Test - washingtonpost.com

16th in science and 23rd in math. What's troubling about these scores is we're always around latvia, russia, portgual, etc. These marginal countries.

U. S. Students Lagging in Math and Science: O.E.C.D. PISA Tests (2000-2003) | Perot Charts (http://perotcharts.com/2008/06/u-s-students-lagging-in-math-and-science-oecd-pisa-tests-2000-2003/ - broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2010, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
I wasn't far off on my figures.

U.S. Teens Trail Peers Around World on Math-Science Test - washingtonpost.com

16th in science and 23rd in math. What's troubling about these scores is we're always around latvia, russia, portgual, etc. These marginal countries.

U. S. Students Lagging in Math and Science: O.E.C.D. PISA Tests (2000-2003) | Perot Charts (http://perotcharts.com/2008/06/u-s-students-lagging-in-math-and-science-oecd-pisa-tests-2000-2003/ - broken link)
I know we're behind. WAY behind but the biggest difference between us and them is how society views education and that students are willing to work to get one. In general, our students don't care and view school as something they are subjected to. Until our children accept responsibility for their own learning, this is not going to change. Right now, it's everyone's fault but Johnny's if Johnny isn't learning and Johnny knows it.

Seriously, I see us falling even farther behind. We seem to have lost the American work ethic. It's now the Asian work ethic. China is rising as a super power to take our place. In fact, our current administration is borrowing money from China to increase our national debt.

The problem you point out cannot be fixed by teachers, adminstrators or school boards. You have to change the attitude of society towards education first.

Back when we were on top, you never heard of a student talking back to a teacher even if the teacher was wrong. Respect came with the territory. If you got into trouble at school, it was nothing compared to what waited for you at home. If you were assigned homework, you did it and you put effort into it. Today kids put in the bare minimum and wonder why they didn't get an A (side effect of everyone getting trophies for showing up). And we didn't bother with kids who didn't want to be educated. We're putting so much effort into kids who don't care, and putting more and more kids into the classroom as a cost save creating a situation where teachers can't get to the ones who do care.

No one ever asks me what I'm going to do to challenge my A students but they sure ask me what I'm going to do about my E students (the vast majority of whom are E students because they don't do their work).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2010, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,889,137 times
Reputation: 2762
I don't think student respect is really the sole culprit.

Is student respect perfect in australia, the netherlands, germany? Countries that score higher than us. I don't think they all have perfect student-teacher respect. Or perfect student attitudes about education.

I think the ugly truth is that these countries (switzerland, canada, sweden) are the way we use to teach students. They're where we use to be in the 50's and 60's. Kind of like looking back in time. We keep falling behind because we keep trying to push everyone up, artificially to the top.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2010, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You have to look outside the US. What school systems are doing well ? Why are they doing well and can we adapt that over here.

Sorry but everyone cannot be a winner and everyone cannot go to college and we're dragging down the best and the brightest by trying to force that "dream".
Bravo!!!! I have no idea why we are trying to reinvent the wheel when others ARE teaching successfully. We NEED to copy what is working in other countries right down to their attitude about education, what is taught and the length of their year!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2010, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
I don't think student respect is really the sole culprit.

Is student respect perfect in australia, the netherlands, germany? Countries that score higher than us. I don't think they all have perfect student-teacher respect. Or perfect student attitudes about education.

I think the ugly truth is that these countries (switzerland, canada, sweden) are the way we use to teach students. They're where we use to be in the 50's and 60's. Kind of like looking back in time. We keep falling behind because we keep trying to push everyone up, artificially to the top.
You don't need perfect to make a system work but you need something. I have, sort of, stepped back in time. I took a job in a small town district with parents who are on top of their kids grades, where kids are raised to know they are expected to respect and learn from their teachers. I am teaching to a higher level and seeing more student succeed than I could have dreamt of in the charter school I was teaching in. Nothing changed about me. What changed is the attitude of my students. I've come to the conclusion that, while their attitude is not everything, it is enough that it, alone, can determine success or failure in the classroom. I'm not that magic teacher who can walk into a classroom of students who don't care and make them care. Few of us are. I can, however, teach students who want to learn.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-27-2010, 09:45 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,900,822 times
Reputation: 17478
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Earlier posts have mentioned the "need" for year-round school sessions--I'm sorry, but I can't go along with that...

Kids, especially the younger ones, need a break from sitting at a desk virtually every day of the calendar year. And with dwindling attention spans, and teacher fatigue, I think such a trend might contribute to higher truancy, and eventually, an increase in dropping out. I don't think that this is far-fetched in the least.

If you want to just extend the school year by a little, to include the entire month of June, I don't see a problem with that. But not the entire year-- a break is needed for both teacher and student.
Year round schools don't necessarily mean more school days (I would not mind seeing a few more school days, but I agree that kids should not be in school every day all year).

Year round schools though spread the school days through the year with shorter breaks. The most popular example of year round education is the 45-15 plan. This has students attending school 45 days and then getting three weeks (15 days) off. The normal breaks (holiday, spring) are still built into this calendar. Of course, many others ways exist to organize the calendar, including the 60-20 and the 90-30 plans. The other facet of implementation is the track. Single-track year round education involves an entire school using the same calendar and getting the same holidays off. Multiple-track year round education has groups of students attending school at different times with different vacations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2010, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,523,276 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Earlier posts have mentioned the "need" for year-round school sessions--I'm sorry, but I can't go along with that...

Kids, especially the younger ones, need a break from sitting at a desk virtually every day of the calendar year. And with dwindling attention spans, and teacher fatigue, I think such a trend might contribute to higher truancy, and eventually, an increase in dropping out. I don't think that this is far-fetched in the least.

If you want to just extend the school year by a little, to include the entire month of June, I don't see a problem with that. But not the entire year-- a break is needed for both teacher and student.
Dwindling attention spans would be helped by more classroom time. The more students practice staying on task the better they'll be at staying on task. You don't improve dwindling attention spans with less time behind a desk. You'd improve it with more.

As to teacher fatigue, you get that now anyway. New school year energy only lasts until about Thanksgiving. (Right now the three weeks I have to teach before Christmas break look like an eternity.)

One year round proposal I liked actually had three long breaks a year. You'd have 3, 13 week "trimesters" with a month off in between each one. The students would have April, August and December off and the teachers would get 2-3 weeks off each break. I could see that working well as it minimizes time for students to forget material while on break and gives teachers time to prep for the next trimester.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top