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As a teacher, I am not in charge of either the special ed teachers in my room or the aides in my room. They are colleagues not subordinates. (In fact, I may be below a special ed teacher in the pecking order). I, certainly, would report the alcohol discussion. The rest, I'd have to see the context and know whether it's a regular occurance.
I certainly would talk to someone if this was a regular occurance or request a different aide or special ed teacher if I couldn't work with one but this is on the order of policing the behavior of the guy in the next office cubicle. It's not my place. It's their supervisor's place.
This was a special ed classroom. The special ed teacher is in charge of her aides. It is not a mainstream class.
I don't know this situation. But I do know SPED, and sometimes a great SPED teacher gets awesome paras....sometimes you get "handed" someone who had to be transferred or placed. And you get what you get. One year, at the beginning of the school year my Principal had a meeting with me, and basically, "apologized", he had to place a major problem para in my classroom. She should have been terminated. She was terrible. But, it was a political issue.
She used bad language, in Spanish. She made terrible comments, in Spanish, about other staff, kids, talked about her sex life in vulgar detail, in Spanish. She pretended not to speak English. She also stated she was hearing impaired, so she would ignore the supervising teacher all day. Passive aggressive to the hilt.
This was a special ed classroom. The special ed teacher is in charge of her aides. It is not a mainstream class.
In the district where I teach, teachers are not in charge of their aides (they are also not aides, but rather paras). The administration is in charge of the paras. A teacher can certainly tell the para what they are expected to do in the classroom and also report the para to administration when the need arises, but the teacher has no official power regarding the para other than that. If the para does not follow directions, is lazy, etc., the teacher cannot make the para leave the classroom, but again would have to advise administration. Teachers cannot choose the para in their classrooms (much as they would like to), nor can they reprimand, hire, or fire the paras (or anything of that nature). Is it different in other districts?
NO....try READING the article. They talked about it being difficult to fire...not a BAD teacher but an underperforming teacher. Tenure requires due process and that the teacher be offered support and training to imrpove before being fired. Bad teachers have always been fireable. What you can't do is fire teacher B because her results are less than those of teacher A. Tenure requires you try to improve teacher B's performance which, BTW, is what industry would do as it's easier to improve the performance of a current employee than hire a new one and train them and settle for even worse performance during the training process.
I only read the NYT article as the other is not from a reputable source so I really don't care what they say.
How about these pervert teachers who can't be fired? Are they bad enough for you?
"Sixteen city teachers have been singled out by education officials for pervy classroom behavior — but they can’t be fired, the Daily News has learned."
"One instructor allegedly bent a kid over a chair and thrust into him from behind, saying “I’ll show you what is gay.†Another couldn’t stop calling girls in his gym class “sexy.†And yet another is accused of telling a student: “I slept with your mother last night.â€
"Fourteen of the shady instructors are still working with city kids — and two of them have been yanked from the classroom after being accused again of inappropriate behavior." Perverted teachers still working - New York Daily News
How about these pervert teachers who can't be fired? Are they bad enough for you?
"Sixteen city teachers have been singled out by education officials for pervy classroom behavior — but they can’t be fired, the Daily News has learned."
"One instructor allegedly bent a kid over a chair and thrust into him from behind, saying “I’ll show you what is gay.†Another couldn’t stop calling girls in his gym class “sexy.†And yet another is accused of telling a student: “I slept with your mother last night.â€
"Fourteen of the shady instructors are still working with city kids — and two of them have been yanked from the classroom after being accused again of inappropriate behavior." Perverted teachers still working - New York Daily News
First, this is a bit off-topic since this thread is about one specific incident.
Second, you did read the entire article, correct? Even though the article was poorly written, it did mention that all of the cases went through arbitration. Both sides have to agree to arbitration in the first place. Also, the article mentions that if the school officials did not agree to the findings, they could take further steps to get rid of the teachers. It is not true to state they can't be fired.
No, sorry I just can't agree. It is never OK. It's a rude, unprofessional thing to say. And as for being at the breaking point, teachers really should not get to that point. Some teachers think getting angry and screaming at kids is a good way to show the kids that they've gone to far, to teach them a lesson. I don't agree. If you can't keep your cool, then the job is not for you. I've some awful, horrible classes, but I've never lost it and started screaming or told people to shut up. I once had to leave the room, and another time had to send the entire class out of the room, but I can't even imagine not being able to control my temper that way. And I'm far from perfect - I am emotional and tend to have trouble hiding my feelings. I have not always been a great teacher and have even done some things I'm ashamed of, but I still feel that treating students that way on a regular basis is a sign that someone is in the wrong profession. Anyway, in most of the schools around here that kind of language would get a person in a lot of trouble - it's just not done, and students know it. Teachers have been specifically trained not to say that or similar. Twenty years ago though, it was probably not such a taboo, and when I was a kid teachers constantly told us to shut up.
The problem with your argument is I've seen this work. I don't do it as I don't think it would work for me but I've seen special ed teachers do this and it works when they do. I'm not arguing with success.
How about these pervert teachers who can't be fired? Are they bad enough for you?
"Sixteen city teachers have been singled out by education officials for pervy classroom behavior — but they can’t be fired, the Daily News has learned."
"One instructor allegedly bent a kid over a chair and thrust into him from behind, saying “I’ll show you what is gay.” Another couldn’t stop calling girls in his gym class “sexy.” And yet another is accused of telling a student: “I slept with your mother last night.”
"Fourteen of the shady instructors are still working with city kids — and two of them have been yanked from the classroom after being accused again of inappropriate behavior." Perverted teachers still working - New York Daily News
Years ago, I was on a jury. We acquitted. We were held for several hours due to fear for our safety. During that time, the judge came to talk to us and told us to remember in the future that the public is not privy to everything what went on in the courtroom. That people form lynch mobs when they have no idea what really went on. This father picked out select snippets and strung them togheter without benefit of context and the lynch mob is forming....the school board, however, heard the entire tape and chose to acquit.
Whether these individual teachers should be fired is up to the people who have all the information not those of us who just have the sensational parts.
There are teachers in my building who do strange things but it works for them. If I started taping them and putting their behavior on line, I'll bet you'd want to fire them too but I know them, their history with the kids and that what they do works for them.
As I said, if you taped me for a day and took my 5 most flustered moments on a bad day and strung them together I'm sure you could form a lynch mob. Most of us are imperfect enough to pull this off.
I find it funny that people here who heard select bits and pieces of the tape are ready to lynch when those who heard the entire tape are not. That tells me we don't have all the information or that context matters.
As far as firing the aide who said what was on this part of the tape, that is no excuse for the teacher who was in charge of the class not to have stopped the aide from this behavior.
Aside from that, the aides were apparently talking about inappropriate subjects in front of the kids (non-verbal does not mean that they didn't understand what was being said).
I actually think there should be cameras in all special education rooms so that parents can check in from time to time, like they can in many daycares nowadays. When a child is nonverbal and cannot tell you what is happening to him during the day, you need a way to check.
You would think. I had an aide (teacher assistant) who would rip into the kids. One day when no one was around I approached her about her interactions. She then ripped into me and told me how I did not sign her check, I do not do this or that and I did not do her evaluation. I told her she was right on all but ONE, I DID DO HER EVALUATION. The next day I was called into the principal's office and answered a LONG list of allegations ranging from denying recess (elementary) to withholding lunch from students.
When I explained what was happening in the room with the TA, the principal looked a bit surprised. After he verified it with another TA in the room he just said things will be alright.
The rest of the year the TA verbally bashed the kids for everything they did wrong--this was a self-contained sever behavior class--and if I dare say something to her, she then started in on me and how this job was just a check to me (after I had discussions with her about how I took a $20K pay cut to accept this position so it wasn't the money), she would yell out how difficult the assignments were and that if she did not understand the 4th grade math, how were the 5th graders ever going to understand it!!
So, not every TA / aide is responsive to the teacher and the admin may already know--so short of a knock down drag out fight, what do you do?
That being said, I heard NOTHING positive or redeeming on this audio tape in the classroom. There would seem to be a very big problem in that classroom.
Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 04-25-2012 at 03:46 AM..
In the district where I teach, teachers are not in charge of their aides (they are also not aides, but rather paras). The administration is in charge of the paras. A teacher can certainly tell the para what they are expected to do in the classroom and also report the para to administration when the need arises, but the teacher has no official power regarding the para other than that. If the para does not follow directions, is lazy, etc., the teacher cannot make the para leave the classroom, but again would have to advise administration. Teachers cannot choose the para in their classrooms (much as they would like to), nor can they reprimand, hire, or fire the paras (or anything of that nature). Is it different in other districts?
It's the same here. All of us, teachers and para's alike, answer to the principal. Special ed teachers are not supervisors.
Where I am, it, simply, is not my place to tell another adult how to do their job. All I can do is talk to the principal and things have to be pretty severe before you do that unless you want to find yourself on the firing line.
In no district that I have been involved with does a special education teacher (or any teacher) have hiring or firing power over support staff. I teach special ed, and my mom has been a special ed para for nearly twenty years. However, in almost every case I am aware of, the teacher IS responsible for knowing what his/her paras are doing, and oversees them, and would absolutely be on the hook when something like this is going on on his or her watch. Any teacher who is aware of this type of conduct would be obligated to address it with administration...it's inappropriate and an abuse. For the person the paras work under to a. not address it or b. be unaware of its going on is a problem.
It's really a GOOD thing that teachers aren't tasked with terminating or disciplining support staff like paras, because there are teachers who really disrespect paras out there,and cases where paras, acting with a child's best interest in mind, have reported teachers for inappropriate treatment of students, and there can be backlash. There can be vendettas...unfortunately, relations between certified and noncertified staff can be nasty (particularly in districts/systems with poor leadership/leadership that condones this...and they do exist).
That said, it's also true that not every teacher or para is on his or her "A" game every minute of every day, but if your conduct is such that you have to worry how out-of-context bits and snippets might look to the outside eye, it's time to give your conduct a really hard and close look. Even on your worst day, you shouldn't be in a position where you have to worry that your conduct, if examined, could result in termination. The conduct that's referenced in this case isn't of the sort where you can really say, "Oh, well, we don't really know the context..." It's inappropriate, no matter the context.
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