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Speak for yourself, really. Kids have 3-5 minutes (depending on the school) to get from one class to another, gather any stuff they need, and go to the restroom. Of course it's more difficult in bigger schools (which exist), but it also can be difficult in smaller schools. Some kids will not have the time.
3-5 minutes is not enough between classes. Period. It is unhealthy in every way - physically, emotionally, socially, pschologically, mentally, and so on. Until students actually have time to take a breath and relax in between classes (until policy changes), and until classes are consistently useful and enjoyable (until our teaching changes), expect to have many students who want to go to the bathroom... whether to actually use it, or just take a break from the daily grind.
This really was not a big issue when I taught. I had the standard not during first/last 10 minutes or during direct instruction and it should be an emergency. But, for whatever reason, kids generally didn't even ask. I will say, they sure did whenever I had a sub. At my last school they also had three teachers' classes that they "had" to use the bathroom during - regardless of what period it was. It isn't about physical needs after the primary grades for most kids, but getting out of class.
Despite believing that, I honestly don't remember ever saying no. If it became a pattern the student and I discussed strategies to avoid the issue in the future, and there have been times over my 27 years we ended up including a parent in that discussion. One time it resulted in the parent taking the child to the doctor and it turned out she had an undiagnosed medical problem that she had been too embarrassed to discuss (teenagers can do that). Once she was properly treated it quit being an issue at all. I've had students where the parent and I agreed that it would be better for the student to be a minute or two late than to leave in the middle of class. Really most were seldom late afterwards, they just needed that permission to feel comfortable taking the time between classes.
The time between classes is to go to their lockers, go to the bathroom, and travel to their next class. It is not intended, at least in any school I have been associated with, as a time to socialize. They do use it for though, and that is more than fine as long as they make sure they care of their other business first and get to class on time. They can also socialize, relax, and take a break from the daily grind while sitting in the next class waiting for the bell to ring. During class they belong in class learning.
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My DS has a problem with incontinence. No matter how much we've tried to explain, doctors notes, meetings, etc, they tend to deny him use of the bathroom when needed. Their systems vary from teacher to teacher. Some only allow one student at a time, one must return before the other can have the "pass", etc, etc. Ok, my ds is 17 and shouldn't have to beg anyone for permission not to soil himself. He's had many in class accidents which have caused him extreme emotional distress, including suicide attempts, drugs, etc.
Finally, I told him, look....you're a grown man, you can act like it. If you feel an accident comng on, just get up and go. Don't raise your hand, don't get into an embarrassing discussion with the teacher, just walk past them to the men's room. After all, as adults, his father and I don't go through a song-and-dance to beg to go potty while in the workplace. We just go there.
I told DS I would back him up if any disciplinary actions resulted. He exercised his "right to go" 2x, and the anxiety melted away from him. He saw he wasn't literally trapped in a classroom waiting to void on himself, he had control over the situation. The anxiety has vanished and he's gained confidence as a human being!
I will take on any teacher, anytime, any place, including local news, schoolboard meetings, whatever, and they know it. They found it easier to back down. It was just a sadistic power kick and I called them out on it.
My DS has a problem with incontinence. No matter how much we've tried to explain, doctors notes, meetings, etc, they tend to deny him use of the bathroom when needed. Their systems vary from teacher to teacher. Some only allow one student at a time, one must return before the other can have the "pass", etc, etc. Ok, my ds is 17 and shouldn't have to beg anyone for permission not to soil himself. He's had many in class accidents which have caused him extreme emotional distress, including suicide attempts, drugs, etc.
Finally, I told him, look....you're a grown man, you can act like it. If you feel an accident comng on, just get up and go. Don't raise your hand, don't get into an embarrassing discussion with the teacher, just walk past them to the men's room. After all, as adults, his father and I don't go through a song-and-dance to beg to go potty while in the workplace. We just go there.
I told DS I would back him up if any disciplinary actions resulted. He exercised his "right to go" 2x, and the anxiety melted away from him. He saw he wasn't literally trapped in a classroom waiting to void on himself, he had control over the situation. The anxiety has vanished and he's gained confidence as a human being!
I will take on any teacher, anytime, any place, including local news, schoolboard meetings, whatever, and they know it. They found it easier to back down. It was just a sadistic power kick and I called them out on it.
This should have NEVER been an issue. The doctor's note should have been the end of the discussion, especially after you explained he has had accidents. He should have been put on a 504 plan to cover this. I don't understand why the school and counselors didn't take care of this.
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This should have NEVER been an issue. The doctor's note should have been the end of the discussion, especially after you explained he has had accidents. He should have been put on a 504 plan to cover this. I don't understand why the school and counselors didn't take care of this.
He was put on a 504 plan. Teachers have a way of ignoring things. Just because its written down somewhere doesn't mean its followed. Yes, I made each teacher aware of the situation, I had meetings, wrote letters, etc, all very polite, very much the "nice lady" got the nodding heads in agreement, but it simply didn't work. They came up with all sorts of ridiculous plans to enable him to use the bathroom, all which involved time which he didn't have. Haven't you ever had an "accident"? There is only so much time one has to get to the toilet. Basically they couldn't/wouldn't allow him bathroom access without making it a documented event, because he had a 504 and a "plan". He was to notify the teacher, who would call the office, who would send up someone to escort him to the bathroom, the bathroom had to be clear of any other students, then they timed him, he couldn't flush until they saw the "evidence" so it could be documented....I'm surprised they didn't take a picture, too
Instead, he chose to soil himself and sit in it until he could get out of the classroom. Then, I received all sorts of nonsense that he didn't participate in class, didn't interact with peers, practiced self-isolating behaviors, yadda, yadda. You wouldn't want to interact much, either, if you had a dump in your pants! He developed the technique of "holding it" which resulted in severe constipation, dehydration, and required surgery to correct. Its a long, long story I don't care to re-hash in detail now, just thank God he's almost out of school now.
It got so bad I took him out one year and homeschooled. I'm not a big fan of homeschooling, I think much is missed, and its difficult to find any materials, groups, etc for homeschooling that don't have a religious slant. I homeschooled to shut down an abusive situation there seemed to be no other way around. We since moved, and the situation has improved. He has gained better physical control, but still has some anxiety. He did NOT want me to "discuss" the issue with the school, and I don't blame him, look what happened last time! I just told him, if you have to go, then go! He's now 17, not 7, and a hulk of a kid at that, I doubt anyone would try to physically block him.
Schools go too far in their handling of "issues". They make a mountain out of a molehill, then can't even follow their own directives. I just told him, go to the toilet, what are they going to do? Twice he exercised that right, both times teachers seemed a bit puzzled, but nothing more came of it. We've managed to get him past that......
He was put on a 504 plan. Teachers have a way of ignoring things. Just because its written down somewhere doesn't mean its followed. Yes, I made each teacher aware of the situation, I had meetings, wrote letters, etc, all very polite, very much the "nice lady" got the nodding heads in agreement, but it simply didn't work. They came up with all sorts of ridiculous plans to enable him to use the bathroom, all which involved time which he didn't have. Haven't you ever had an "accident"? There is only so much time one has to get to the toilet. Basically they couldn't/wouldn't allow him bathroom access without making it a documented event, because he had a 504 and a "plan". He was to notify the teacher, who would call the office, who would send up someone to escort him to the bathroom, the bathroom had to be clear of any other students, then they timed him, he couldn't flush until they saw the "evidence" so it could be documented....I'm surprised they didn't take a picture, too
I had a student with encopresis one year. We put him on a 504 plan. All he did was get my attention then point to the door and I nodded. I did need to know he was leaving, if at all possible. Listen, no teacher in their right mind wants to mess around with a kid who has a documented case of that. The disruption him having an accident would cause to the entire class definitely would have far exceeded any disruption him going to the bathroom could possibly cause. No thanks. Sometimes, you have to choose your battles. Plus, just from a compassion standpoint, keeping him in class wasn't worth the risk.
We did have to keep track of when he left and how long he was gone, but that was just a piece of paper that I turned in each week to the counselor. No one watched him, escorted him, or cleared a bathroom. Sheesh, who would want that task? That they were insisting on all that is ludicrous, and frankly, baffling. Although I'm sure special ed teachers probably have more experience with it, encopresis is very rarely seen in the regular classroom, I only encountered one kid in 27 years of teaching full time and never as a sub. It is a special case, and as far as I was concerned, him not having an accident was more important than anything I was teaching in class. They were idiots at that school.
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The time between classes is to go to their lockers, go to the bathroom, and travel to their next class. It is not intended, at least in any school I have been associated with, as a time to socialize. They do use it for though, and that is more than fine as long as they make sure they care of their other business first and get to class on time. They can also socialize, relax, and take a break from the daily grind while sitting in the next class waiting for the bell to ring. During class they belong in class learning.
Do you believe that 3-5 hours of academics (I'm accounting for lunchtime at some point) interrupted only by a few 5 minute breaks (most of which is spent getting to class) is enough for the students' minds and bodies to be fresh for learning?
I don't -- based on both my own observations, and my understanding of research on how people effectively learn and live in a healthy way.
If we gave students 15 minutes between classes, like they do in Finland, they would be much more "ready and able to learn" when it's time for class. Until we get to that point, my sympathies lie with the students -- not overly-demanding teachers and policymakers.
Do you believe that 3-5 hours of academics (I'm accounting for lunchtime at some point) interrupted only by a few 5 minute breaks (most of which is spent getting to class) is enough for the students' minds and bodies to be fresh for learning?
I don't -- based on both my own observations, and my understanding of research on how people effectively learn and live in a healthy way.
If we gave students 15 minutes between classes, like they do in Finland, they would be much more "ready and able to learn" when it's time for class. Until we get to that point, my sympathies lie with the students -- not overly-demanding teachers and policymakers.
Hey, as a teacher, I wouldn't mind that 15 minute break between classes but it's a bad idea. Most high school/middle school teachers would agree with me - mostly for reasons that have nothing to do with academics.
PS - Finland has waaaay different demographics in their schools than we do.
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I understand that point of view -- we would have to change some more things if we were to implement a longer break. If we wanted to make the change, a good first step would be a longer break but requiring the students to be in class after 5 minutes (so, they would just have 5-10 extra minutes in the room before class starts, to socialize, unwind, go to the bathroom...). That is just one idea, of course it would require a lot of discussion and problem solving.
Still, until students have more time between classes, it remains that I will be sympathetic with students and not with faculty or policymakers. Logistics or not, the students don't have enough time between classes to be healthy people and focused learners.
Do you believe that 3-5 hours of academics (I'm accounting for lunchtime at some point) interrupted only by a few 5 minute breaks (most of which is spent getting to class) is enough for the students' minds and bodies to be fresh for learning?
I don't -- based on both my own observations, and my understanding of research on how people effectively learn and live in a healthy way.
If we gave students 15 minutes between classes, like they do in Finland, they would be much more "ready and able to learn" when it's time for class. Until we get to that point, my sympathies lie with the students -- not overly-demanding teachers and policymakers.
We can't because we make teachers responsible for what kids do. In Finland students are responsible for themselves. However, we don't need to. Just walk down the hall and peek in in the last 10 minutes of just about any class and you'll see kids either lined up at the door waiting for the bell to ring or socializing. Trust me they are getting their social time. What the 15 minutes after classes does in Finland is it allows students who have questions to get them answered right after the class where the material was learned. Our kids wouldn't use it for that. Our kids are not active participants in their own learning. They view education as something that is forced upon them.
Hey, as a teacher, I wouldn't mind that 15 minute break between classes but it's a bad idea. Most high school/middle school teachers would agree with me - mostly for reasons that have nothing to do with academics.
PS - Finland has waaaay different demographics in their schools than we do.
I agree with you. Policing what goes on during those 15 minutes would be a nightmare.
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