Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-24-2013, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Some possible solutions:

First, reframe the conversation by using the terminology of teams rather than group work. Think of your favorite sports team and now call them a group. Have the students especially those who play team sports explain why and how the team works together and how it makes for a winning strategy.

Have team members share their individual strengths.

Have the students actually think about and discuss the meaning of teamwork.

Set the rules *and* do think about making special arrangements for kids who cannot for some reason work with a team.

Prepare for failure and restructuring.

See conflict as an opportunity and have kids practice resolving conflict before they start a project.

Allow time for brainstorming.

Teach focused communication.

Reward innovation.

Reflect after the project is done and have students evaluate what could have been done to make the team more successful.

Does this take more time? Yep, but it pays off.
I have watched the A students do this when they are allowed to choose their own groups.
They collaborate in the true sense and need very little "teaching". When they do ask questions it's after they've discussed it among themselves and come up with a stalemate.

And I've also seen the "copiers" (for lack of a better description) grouped together.
They'll spend some time just talking among themselves with no work done. Then they start to look around the room and see the other groups working and something always seems to click with them and they start working. I usually come over to them at that time and start asking questions about their setup and approach to get them going.

I work in low SE schools though with a high amount of behavior problem children.
I've learned the time to pounce is when THEY decide to engage. Until then it's like talking to a wall.


And I know what you are posting is the textbook way to do it but I just don't encounter those students that reflect and evaluate. They just want to get the work done and handed in and move on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-24-2013, 03:01 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,921,959 times
Reputation: 17478
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I have watched the A students do this when they are allowed to choose their own groups.
They collaborate in the true sense and need very little "teaching". When they do ask questions it's after they've discussed it among themselves and come up with a stalemate.

And I've also seen the "copiers" (for lack of a better description) grouped together.
They'll spend some time just talking among themselves with no work done. Then they start to look around the room and see the other groups working and something always seems to click with them and they start working. I usually come over to them at that time and start asking questions about their setup and approach to get them going.

I work in low SE schools though with a high amount of behavior problem children.
I've learned the time to pounce is when THEY decide to engage. Until then it's like talking to a wall.


And I know what you are posting is the textbook way to do it but I just don't encounter those students that reflect and evaluate. They just want to get the work done and handed in and move on.
I don't see why if team sports can engage kids and teach them to collaborate, we cannot do the same with academic projects. They need practice. They need to buy in, of course, but getting buy in is a function of setting this up early (well before high school, imo).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2013, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
I don't see why if team sports can engage kids and teach them to collaborate, we cannot do the same with academic projects. They need practice. They need to buy in, of course, but getting buy in is a function of setting this up early (well before high school, imo).
Sports and academics are on different planes.

Sports is fun and it's highly competitive with "us vs them" which enhances teamwork with the goal to "beat them".

Academics is not like that at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2013, 04:01 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,159,824 times
Reputation: 28335
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
I don't see why if team sports can engage kids and teach them to collaborate, we cannot do the same with academic projects. They need practice. They need to buy in, of course, but getting buy in is a function of setting this up early (well before high school, imo).
They want to be on team sports, have to earn a spot on the team, and because you are performing in front of others, everyone knows who to label contributors and who to label distractors in the team's wins and losses. Big difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,280 posts, read 6,086,413 times
Reputation: 3925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
They want to be on team sports, have to earn a spot on the team, and because you are performing in front of others, everyone knows who to label contributors and who to label distractors in the team's wins and losses. Big difference.
Yep, it's a huge difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2013, 07:24 PM
 
1,458 posts, read 2,659,026 times
Reputation: 3147
I detested this.

I could not stand it in grade school, in high school, in college and it bore zero relationship to what I deal with at work.

It provides a way for the slugs and leeches to do even less work than they were already doing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2013, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Lauderdale by the Sea, Florida
384 posts, read 594,408 times
Reputation: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheeeen View Post
Right, work done in school is not the same but all of the activities contribute in the overall development of a student. It teaches team work and enhances leadership qualities which, you know very well, are required for any kind of professional work.
While this may make sense on paper, it is not the case in real life. More often then not, the failing student views being paired with an A-student as their "get out of jail free" card, since most teachers place the big project at the end of each quarter. Since projects are worth a lot of points, any slacker with half a brain will realize that all they need to do is force the A-student to do all the work, which will bring their F grade to a D, thereby getting them out of the class.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2013, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Striving for Avalon
1,431 posts, read 2,481,082 times
Reputation: 3451
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
I usually pair up the Rhode Scholars with the Gomer Pyles.

1. It helps the Gomer Pyles to learn it from others.

2. It tends to deflated the egos of the Rhode Scholars just enough to keep them grounded.

Each student is evaluated on their contribution. I am confident the scholars will do well, I am anticipating the Gomer Pyles to do better.
God I hope this is sarcasm/satire of some sort.

1. GP doesn't learn a damn thing. Well, actually, that's not true. S/he learns to manipulate the ambition/drive/etc of the A student. Lacklustre, unmotivated students turning into scholars just does not happen as you suggest.

2. Tall poppy syndrome, eh? The "Rhodes Scholar" intellectually-inclined kids are already struggling against an anti-intellectual culture which is dismissive or openly hostile to them. Of more immediate relevance, they are being held personally responsible for a group effort. And s/he has no power over the group: s/he can't hire or fire; s/he has no "carrot" or "stick" to provide incentive; the task may be too large for s/he to complete on his/her own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 01:03 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,159,824 times
Reputation: 28335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelorn View Post
2. Tall poppy syndrome, eh? The "Rhodes Scholar" intellectually-inclined kids are already struggling against an anti-intellectual culture which is dismissive or openly hostile to them. Of more immediate relevance, they are being held personally responsible for a group effort. And s/he has no power over the group: s/he can't hire or fire; s/he has no "carrot" or "stick" to provide incentive; the task may be too large for s/he to complete on his/her own.
Sounds like being a teacher these days.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Lauderdale by the Sea, Florida
384 posts, read 594,408 times
Reputation: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelorn View Post
God I hope this is sarcasm/satire of some sort.

1. GP doesn't learn a damn thing. Well, actually, that's not true. S/he learns to manipulate the ambition/drive/etc of the A student. Lacklustre, unmotivated students turning into scholars just does not happen as you suggest.

2. Tall poppy syndrome, eh? The "Rhodes Scholar" intellectually-inclined kids are already struggling against an anti-intellectual culture which is dismissive or openly hostile to them. Of more immediate relevance, they are being held personally responsible for a group effort. And s/he has no power over the group: s/he can't hire or fire; s/he has no "carrot" or "stick" to provide incentive; the task may be too large for s/he to complete on his/her own.
This, this, and more this. A smart leech knows that all he has to to pass the class is to get a good grade on the final project, so they are at free will because they know the A-student will be forced to do all the work anyway to maintain their average. Most leeches are just looking to get that Diploma by doing the minimum possible work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:44 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top