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Old 11-21-2007, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,538 posts, read 6,805,852 times
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I have been teaching for 14 years and have had the opportunity to teach every grade from 2nd through 8th in large school districts in Connecticut. Prior to becoming a teacher I worked for many years for a major engineering and manufacturing firm doing business with numerous companies both foreign and domestic.

Over the years I have seen educational curriculum move from a diverse group of offerings appealing to the aptitude and interest of most students to a more homogenous assessment-oriented program geared toward moving all children to post secondary, mostly 4-year, colleges.

This trend began prior to the enactment of NCLB but has accelerated substantially over the past five years. Many of the prior critics of assessment-based instruction have now become the "experts" imposing ever-increasing standards of performance upon younger and younger groups of children.

As a former primary teacher it was not uncommon to experience teaching 6 and 7 year-old students in second grade who were in considerably different places, maybe as much as 24 months developmentally. However, by fourth grade many of these same students had closed or eliminated their devleopmental gap and were performing at or above grade-level. As the "bar" has been continually raised I have witnessed more and more students exhibit anxiety, frustration, and diminished self-esteem as the content moves further away from their interest, ability, or motivation.

At upper levels many high schools have eliminated high-interest programs that formerly appealed to many students such as automotive repair, woodworking, manufacturing technology, electronics, etc. Students who would prefer those programs are instead required to take high sciences, advanced algebra, and other college prerequisites whether they want to or not.

Who is going to construct, wire, plumb, heat, cool, roof our residential and commercial buildings? What about highways, bridges, dams, boats, cars, appliances, furniture, driveways, swimming pools, landscaping, restaurants, retail, public works, etc.?

Is contemporary education truly meeting the needs, interests, and dreams of all students or are the educational elitists trying to eliminate less-regarded professions from America's offerings?
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Old 11-21-2007, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,893,336 times
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I wonder about alot of things in education, that I don't have the answers for...

-Why is education so focused on giving students one major, when the job market is so varied? It's suppose to set you for life, but is it really preparing you for 10, 20, 30 years down the line?

-Why hasn't the school year and cirriculum caught up with the high cost of living in big cities? Alot of people are graduating now, and you can't even live where you graduated from.

-Why is it so technologically outdated? Why do you still have to buy $125 textbooks in college, when you've got pdf's, and cheap media and storage.

I graduated from college a few years ago...the system is really nutty. Spending $400-500 a semester on books, then you need new ones next year, whats to revise in a math or history book.

To answer the question, I think college has almost become a cult. They really pound into your head...you've got to go to college. Got to go to college. Your life will be ruined if you don't go.

You dont have a choice in it. They've really got you....they can charge any tuition they want, any amounts for books or services. They can give you any amount of work.

I wonder...why is there so much pressure in school to begin with?

I don't think the system lays out all the choices for you. It pushs you along too fast. There's definitely a bias towards big, 4 year schools. Look at US News and their famous college rankings...virtually nothing on community colleges, trade techs, electronics. It's all big expensive schools.

Then all the hype about saving for college, how are you going to pay for schools, all the testing, the test prep.

If 90% of kids graduated, and could settle down by 25, 26, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But it just isn't like that..
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Old 11-21-2007, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,538 posts, read 6,805,852 times
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It is true that education is behind the curve regarding technology. Schools are spending big bucks on technology and then they slap a big filter system on it so you can't even access CNN, stock charts, ESPN, any music artist, or almost any website ending with .com.

My students wanted to research Stevie Wonder for a report in their music class and the big X comes up on the screen saying PROHIBITED - ENTERTAINMENT.

I can't even use the internet to access content for lesson development because the majority of the sites are blocked. I have to do most of it at home.
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Old 11-22-2007, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Camberville
15,866 posts, read 21,452,288 times
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I always faced the other side of the problem- I was bored out of my mind from the day I stepped into kindergarten until the day I graduated. My parents had to fight tooth and nail to get a gifted program in my elementary school, and then it was just isolating because I would be taken out of class for a full day once a week with the other gifted kids. Obviously, other kids were upset that they weren't included in this once a week program too so that lost me a lot of friends on the playground.

So I went from being at a 6th grade reading level and 4th grade math level in kindergarten to evening out to grade level math by the end of elementary school. Because the experience of being gifted stunted me socially (at least in the eyes of counselors and principals), they would never allow me to skip grades either and instead suggested that my parents either homeschool me or send me to boarding school as no local private school was secular.

Also, the special education in this country is absolutely ridiculous. A good friend of mine wrote for my school newspaper about being in special ed in school: The Hoot - One Tall Voice: Six years in special ed The gist is that he had learning disabilities and was put in special ed where all he did was busywork. Despite this, he now is at one of the top colleges in the country (getting over a 1400 on his SAT in order to get in). Yet I don't think most intelligent differently able people luck out. One of my best friend's little brothers in high school had high functioning autism and was out in special ed- despite the fact that he had good friendships with non-autistic kids and could do multivariable calculus before even going to high school. Even when they mainstreamed him in his junior year, they wouldn't allow him to take AP courses because his special ed teacher did not feel comfortable with the material in advanced science and math courses. Instead, he was put into remedial English and history courses and earth science. When he tried to kill himself at the end of the year, his parents ended up having to go into debt so his mother could quit work to homeschool him with the education that the school was refusing to give him.

I do kind of agree with the bias towards 4 year schools for those who choose to go to college. I've taken community college courses, and they were actually easier than my high school courses. I can't imagine getting a full education there. There are some good community college courses, but personally I see a HUGE difference between even a top 40 school and a top 100 school in terms of opportunities and overall education in many fields.
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,893,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
It is true that education is behind the curve regarding technology. Schools are spending big bucks on technology and then they slap a big filter system on it so you can't even access CNN, stock charts, ESPN, any music artist, or almost any website ending with .com.

My students wanted to research Stevie Wonder for a report in their music class and the big X comes up on the screen saying PROHIBITED - ENTERTAINMENT.

I can't even use the internet to access content for lesson development because the majority of the sites are blocked. I have to do most of it at home.
I think it'd be very interesting to have internet collaboration in the classroom.

I.e., a history class covering ancient greece, and the teacher goes online and collaborates with a tourguide actually in greece. Or something that makes the content come alive and seem real. Especially in this world of cheap video, cheap media, round the clock information.

Also, there's so many other classes and concepts that aren't taught.

-History of music
-History of technology, computers, the internet
-Comprehensive health
-World religion, world customs, law, government.
-Generally, the current state of the world. I.e., the book, the World is Flat.
-Small business

I remember in school, elementary school was a good foundation, but after that, alot of kids I knew were bored out of their minds, and it got worst as time went on.
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Old 11-22-2007, 05:02 AM
 
20,793 posts, read 61,323,996 times
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John23, you do know that the US New College rankings are PAID ads basically. The schools that are ranked there are those that choose to pay to be in that ranking.

I am more and more appreciative of our schools every time I see a post like this. All the things that people say are missing in there schools are alive and well in our schools. We have tech course, auto shop, wood shop, etc. We have many online resources available to our kids. Many of their classes have gone away from textbooks for every student and moved into having online text books. They have a classroom set available and extras for those students that want one or don't have internet access but for the most part the kids use the internet for their 'textbooks' now.
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Old 11-22-2007, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,538 posts, read 6,805,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
John23, you do know that the US New College rankings are PAID ads basically. The schools that are ranked there are those that choose to pay to be in that ranking.

I am more and more appreciative of our schools every time I see a post like this. All the things that people say are missing in there schools are alive and well in our schools. We have tech course, auto shop, wood shop, etc. We have many online resources available to our kids. Many of their classes have gone away from textbooks for every student and moved into having online text books. They have a classroom set available and extras for those students that want one or don't have internet access but for the most part the kids use the internet for their 'textbooks' now.
You are quite fortunate. Many of the schools in Connecticut, especially those in more diverse communities are expending considerable resources toward moving lower-performing students toward reaching proficiency on the Connecticut Mastery Test. This has become the driver for programs, curriculum, professional development, individual and subject area planning, etc. Students who are gift or already above the required level of proficiency are not receiving the same interest.

The sad fact is, as others have stated, some of the kids are either bored or mismatched with program offerings.

There is no reason why we should be shoehorning high-school algebra concepts into every child in 6th or 7th grade when many of them are still grappling with foundational concepts and skills.

Many excellent, creative, and experienced teachers are leaving the profession as it becomes more homogeneous and scripted. There has to be something in the "profession" for the true professional that matches their interest, motivation, and professional goals.
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Old 11-22-2007, 07:32 AM
 
1,428 posts, read 3,162,761 times
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I think it's partly the educational elitists, but I also think it was done in response to actual or perceived racism or ethnocentrism.

Unless I miss my guess, the majority of the students in voc/tech programs tended to be lower-middle or low-SES students -- many of whom were ethnic minorities or people of color-- while the majority of students in AP, GATE, and college prep programs tended to be upper-middle or upper-SES students -- many of whom were white.

Not only has the democratization of intelligence under NCLB mandate that all students meet a single standard (regardless of their abilities, language proficiency, or personal desire), but many high schools wanted to be able to say that they challenged ALL students, that they prepared ALL students for college. The minute you say that, Wood Shop 101 goes out the window and AP doubles in size -- again, regardless of the students' abilities, language proficiency, or personal desire.

If it makes you feel any better, GATE students are feeling the NCLB pinch as well. There is little incentive for administrators to grade-skip students -- demonstrably the most beneficial and low-cost way of dealing with extremely and profoundly gifted students -- when those EG or PG kids could add their test-taking muscle to a particular grade or particular school (in the case of an EG or PG kid who might be skipped from an elementary to a middle or high school, for example). Many (and possibly most) GATE classes provide "enrichment," which for some translates into doing silly puzzles or logic games so as not to interfere with the regular curriculum.

In my opinion, I think students should, at about the middle-school level, be permitted to "major" in a particular program area, whether that program is physics or auto mechanics. I think that they should be permitted to switch, but with the proviso that this switching will put them behind, just as it does for college, and that their parents may have to pay a sum (on a sliding scale)to make up for the lost time and increased student load on the teachers and school. I also think that retention in a program needs to be contingent upon maintaining a reasonably achievable GPA and on one's behavior so that there is actual incentive to do the work, come to school, and learn.

However, that's not going to happen in my lifetime.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,538 posts, read 6,805,852 times
Reputation: 5985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
I think it's partly the educational elitists, but I also think it was done in response to actual or perceived racism or ethnocentrism.

Unless I miss my guess, the majority of the students in voc/tech programs tended to be lower-middle or low-SES students -- many of whom were ethnic minorities or people of color-- while the majority of students in AP, GATE, and college prep programs tended to be upper-middle or upper-SES students -- many of whom were white.

Not only has the democratization of intelligence under NCLB mandate that all students meet a single standard (regardless of their abilities, language proficiency, or personal desire), but many high schools wanted to be able to say that they challenged ALL students, that they prepared ALL students for college. The minute you say that, Wood Shop 101 goes out the window and AP doubles in size -- again, regardless of the students' abilities, language proficiency, or personal desire.

If it makes you feel any better, GATE students are feeling the NCLB pinch as well. There is little incentive for administrators to grade-skip students -- demonstrably the most beneficial and low-cost way of dealing with extremely and profoundly gifted students -- when those EG or PG kids could add their test-taking muscle to a particular grade or particular school (in the case of an EG or PG kid who might be skipped from an elementary to a middle or high school, for example). Many (and possibly most) GATE classes provide "enrichment," which for some translates into doing silly puzzles or logic games so as not to interfere with the regular curriculum.

In my opinion, I think students should, at about the middle-school level, be permitted to "major" in a particular program area, whether that program is physics or auto mechanics. I think that they should be permitted to switch, but with the proviso that this switching will put them behind, just as it does for college, and that their parents may have to pay a sum (on a sliding scale)to make up for the lost time and increased student load on the teachers and school. I also think that retention in a program needs to be contingent upon maintaining a reasonably achievable GPA and on one's behavior so that there is actual incentive to do the work, come to school, and learn.

However, that's not going to happen in my lifetime.
Nice summation. It is true that many minorities were steered toward technical and non-college bound programs. It was also true for many people of lower economic status regardless of race.

However, America has always had a strong working-class group of people. Listening to some of the "experts" in education you would think that tradesmen, craftsmen, and other non-college graduates are not wanted in American society. It is elitism and ignorance. Many tradespeople prefer to do this type of work and have some unbelievable knowledge and skills representing a different type of intelligence. Also, many of these same "experts" pay these tradesmen 3 or 4 times their hourly earnings to have them fix their toilet, build an addition, etc. while feeling they are too important to bother themselves with such lowly tasks.

Pushing a high school student toward going to college when they are barely able to achieve a 700 on their SATs when they are interested in something else is a waste of their time and that of the institution they will attend.

The greatest growth opportunities for American college graduates in the future will be medical sciences, high technology, engineering, alternative energy development, etc. Most of the students with minimal aptitude or interest entering our college systems are not able or interested in participating in these programs and therefore will not be getting what they need to compete in 21st century America. The non-college track jobs mentioned in my earlier posts will still be needed and will most likely be filled by immigrants arriving here legally or illegally.
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,893,336 times
Reputation: 2762
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
John23, you do know that the US New College rankings are PAID ads basically. The schools that are ranked there are those that choose to pay to be in that ranking.

I am more and more appreciative of our schools every time I see a post like this. All the things that people say are missing in there schools are alive and well in our schools. We have tech course, auto shop, wood shop, etc. We have many online resources available to our kids. Many of their classes have gone away from textbooks for every student and moved into having online text books. They have a classroom set available and extras for those students that want one or don't have internet access but for the most part the kids use the internet for their 'textbooks' now.
Yeah, the US News Rankings have always been very biased towards big, elite schools.

Something like 30-40% of everyone after highschool goes to a community college, trade tech, in the army or they don't even go to college. I don't know the exact statistics, but it's a decent percentage.

In the US News World, everyone goes off to an elite college, which just isn't reality.

From my experiences, schools hardly ever took advantage of technology. In highschool and college, we watched videos sometimes, and did some computer, library work, but it wasn't at all on the cutting edge. I.e. people still falling asleep in class from a lecture.
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