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What is so different in providing an environment for educating those students that are "gifted" vs those that require other special services????? We provide students that will never perform at grade level their entire academic career with all kinds of "special services" yet some of you are upset that schools offer something for those on the OTHER end of the spectrum?????? What is so different about the two? They BOTH learn at a different pace than the "normal" or "average" student. Why should we only help one and not the other?
BTW, I am NOT against providing services for ANY child. I think they ALL should be eligible to be in an evironment that is BEST for THEM. And that includes the GIFTED STUDENTS!
Since some are "offended" by the term "gifted" should we ban it? How about calling them "academically challenged"? That term could go either way. My point is there has to be some term used to define the students on the upper end of the spectrum. So I suggest get over being offended that there REALLY are some "GIFTED" kids out there that DESERVE the best education that they can get just like every other student. What some of you are saying is these kids are "worthless" in your eyes. That they do not deserve to be treated fairly. That they don't deserve a chance to blossom, continue their skills, use them, train them, channel them. That they should just be stuffed in a classroom and left to fend for themselves.
I say get over being offended that there are INDEED GIFTED students out there. I'll use the term "GIFTED" as long as I happily want to
You are totally right... I was in public school from 1st-3rd grade, and would literally throw the homework directly into the garbage. Why bother wasting my time, when I already knew everything on the page? It was affecting both my behavior and my grades, and as I mentioned earlier, I was barely pulling straight Cs. The teachers recommended putting me into private school, and my life really changed after that... I was doing better schoolwork, had more friends, and was given a chance to express my creative side (I'm a musician, which all started at that private school). Anyway, I think you're absolutely right, and we shouldn't ignore kids on ANY end of the "spectrum." Gifted programs are there for a reason, just as Special Education is there for kids with special needs - and they both work, at least when they're run correctly.
Any parent with more than one child knows this is absolutely not true.
I don't have kids yet, but I guarantee my mother would agree with you!! There are 3 kids in my family, and we were (still are) as different as night & day... my older sister was the responsible straight-A student, I was the rebellious one, and my little brother was the bored genius type (either gets As or Ds, depending on whether he's interested). We're totally the textbook case of birth-order determining your personality - LOL. However, because our parents did a decent job, even the obnoxious one (ME!) turned out fine in the end.
Btw, I worked as a tutor while I was in grad school, and saw the benefits of one-on-one attention... I worked mostly with ESL kids, though, so that's a whole different ballgame! But I do believe all children can benefit from special programs, whether they're gifted, special-needs, or anything in the middle. Too bad our school don't have the money for all of that.
I am so sick of how this term is thrown around on this board. My "gifted" children this, my "gifted" children that. On another thread someone used it as an excuse for children misbehaving They are bored so they act out. OK, not acceptable regardless of your IQ.
Guess what? There are many gifted children who aren't "gifted". My child, while he is not in the "gifted" program at school, is a grade level ahead in math and reading and it could be more since I last met with his teacher. Am I disappointed that he isn't in the AIG program? Lord no and I told him not to worry about it. It just meant more work on top of what he already has. My child excels at sports. He's well rounded. Doing well in school and sports. I'll take that any day. STOP pushing your "gifted" children down our throats. I'll take an average or above average child who is having fun growing up over most of the AIG kids I know any day. Public school is just fine for most kids if parents get involved and know the teachers and what they are teaching.
Sorry, just needed to vent. This has bothered me for a while.
There is such a thing as a gifted child and it really has nothing to do with whether they are performing well in school or not. I have seen many gifted children do poorly because they do not care or other reasons. I have also seen many not gifted children get straight A's. Gifted refers to a person's natural intelligence.
As a guidance counselor, I have actually worked with a few kids who were doing really poorly in classes because they were bored and were really beyond what was going on. They resented the busy work and therefore did not do it and suffered poor grades. They were, however, getting A's on the tests. Now, they were making poor decisions but I will say, once we got them into honors classes and AP classes, they did a lot better. I have never seen a kid act out because he was bored and gifted, but I would not be surprised if it did happen.
This is only one example. But, the point is that there are gifted kids and I am glad that schools provide services to them the same as services are provided for special education kids.
This is awesome! I don't send my children to school, but I think this should be the norm for ALL schools! ALL children would benefit from a free environment like this instead of "regular" school, not only gifted students! Imagine how kids would soar without the imposition of "crowd control" and "socialization" (not in a good way) upon them at all times. This is basically how we run our "homeschool": no grades, very little creativity stifling (I will admit that sometimes my desire for less mess DOES stifle creativity), no busywork. I'm so happy for you that you were able to flourish in such a wonderful-sounding environment!
Sorry but MOST kids crave the structure of the classroom. Many, many, many kids would fail if they were allowed to do whatever they wanted when ever they wanted.
That's interesting... I wonder where you get that idea from? All of the kids in my unschooling homeschool do wonderfully without artificial structure....
There is a LOT to be learned with peer tutoring. It is a VERY common practice and very beneficial for ALL involved. What so called experts claim this. The real experts, the teachers, see this as a VERY valuable tool and it has nothing to do with having an unpaid assistant.
I stand by my last statement. What comes to school came from home, plain and simple. If a child isn't expected to behave at home, they won't behave at school. Often parents THINK their children are well behaved at home and can't understand why they don't behave at school when the reality is that they never ask anything of their children at home. They have no responsibility, don't have to pick up after themselves, don't have regular chores, etc. Talk to any kindergarten teacher and they can tell from day one which students have regular jobs at home and which don't. The schools can only do so much and if there isn't reinforcement at home, things at school are not going to change. Go spend a couple weeks observing in an elementary school and you will see exactly what I am talking about.
excellent and on target--have worked with children 30+ yrs(not a teacher but a helper)----what you stated is so true!
I do not believe that every kid who scores above average on whatever test deserves more opportunity than all of the other kids.
But shouldn't he or she have an equal opportunity?
My older son's story is similar to what Gizmo and momof2dfw have described.
He was not *highly* gifted (he was tested and was in some "identified" classes, and some regular) but he was definitely smarter than the average bear.
And yes, sometimes he got in trouble at school because of this, though he did soon figure out the system and how to operate within it.
He was never able to really blossom or take off or whatever you want to call it until he got to college, where he consistently enjoyed learning. He's done fine ever since.
All special needs children should receive the education they deserve, but it doesn't always happen without a parental advocate.
Sure there are some obnoxious parents who want to live vicariously through their gifted Junior, just as there are loudmouth faded jocks on the Little League field. And sometimes Junior really isn't gifted, just a summer birthday held back. And sometimes the kid playing baseball just wishes Dad would shut up.
But giftedness, no matter what you want to call it, is real.
Being average is just fine--it's what I am, lol--but the levels below and above it do exist, and can not and should not be ignored.
Sorry but MOST kids crave the structure of the classroom. Many, many, many kids would fail if they were allowed to do whatever they wanted when ever they wanted.
Theres a difference between structured, must do everything at the speed of the class...
and anarchy.
I don't believe anyone here presents anarchy as a viable solution for teaching children in the classroom. So please don't use absolutes.
Most people here seem to be saying that giving students the ability to move at their pace is most beneficial. And that being asked to tutor others continually, is not doing that. Whats best, is if the peer interaction works both ways. Anyone have that friend that was great in every subject? Helped you out every time? Yeah, that person doesn't really like doing that all the time. For me, I tend to be good in Math and Logic stuff, but some of my friends excel in English, and I ask them for help, and they ask me for help in the Math/Logic stuff.
If its one-sided, its not beneficial to anyone, because everyone walks away frustrated. The smarter child because they're forced to continually explain things (and some of these children just SUCK at explaining things to others), and the other child, because one of their peers has to constantly explain things, believe they're stupid, etc.
These blanket statements never apply with children, its always a system of balances.
And truly, its our duty to educate our children to the best of our abilities, and asking them to tutor others rather than teaching them, isn't doing that.
...(and some of these children just SUCK at explaining things to others)...
The reason some of these children SUCK at explaining things to others (and yes, that is true!) is because they think and learn very differently*. The explanation isn't going to make any sense to the struggling peer who can't even begin to understand where this peer tutor's thought process and explanation is coming from.
*Note that I am saying differently, not better.
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...and the other child, because one of their peers has to constantly explain things, believe they're stupid, etc.
This is a tragic downside of peer tutoring. Why are educators overlooking this very negative consequence?
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And truly, its our duty to educate our children to the best of (their) abilities, and asking them to tutor others rather than teaching them, isn't doing that.
I agree with Radek. I think peer tutoring can be counterproductive for a lot of students. Teaching something you're mastered at to other kids seems redundant. What is the smarter peer learning or getting out of it.
Oops, I forgot to respond to the topic. Imho, as a parent of a "gifted" child, well he is highly academic, not really into sports other then TKD, so I guess that would make him "gif" or "ted"...lol. But seriously, I know a lot of kids that are "gifted" and their parents are proud. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a different story if they always need to point it out ( like some parents I know) and let everyone know how smart their kid is.
Last edited by tkdmom; 02-09-2008 at 02:33 PM..
Reason: Add verbiage
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It was affecting both my behavior and my grades, and as I mentioned earlier, I was barely pulling straight Cs. The teachers recommended putting me into private school, and my life really changed after that... I was doing better schoolwork, had more friends, and was given a chance to express my creative side (I'm a musician, which all started at that private school). Anyway, I think you're absolutely right, and we shouldn't ignore kids on ANY end of the "spectrum." Gifted programs are there for a reason, just as Special Education is there for kids with special needs - and they both work, at least when they're run correctly.
They are bored so they act out. OK, not acceptable regardless of your IQ.
