Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You need 4400 people just to administer loans? Billions of loans are given out everyday by banks and mortgage companies and nobody notices. It's a computer program for crying out loud.
If you're posting on this forum, hopefully you know that the ED is involved in far more than just managing loans. One of its most important functions is assuring that Sped kids receive an appropriate education, rather than being throw-aways.
Schools had it figured out years ago. The answer is pretty obvious. It's just not politically correct. Put the top students, the college bound, into a college bound curriculum. Put the vocationally bound students into vocational curriculum. Put the trouble makers in a third room and teach them how to dig ditches if you have to. They'll either get real good at ditch digging or decide to behave and move back to a regular class room. Just get them out of the way of the other students who want to make something of themselves. Either way the net cost to society is less than the damage they cause by holding the other back.
Simple answers don't usually solve complex issues.
At what grade level are you going to begin dividing the students into those tracks?
What about late-bloomers...and there are a lot of them. They're just stuck in the track some adult assigned them to?
I've known many a successful doctor or lawyer or computer programmer who will admit that they were lousy in K-12 and didn't find themselves until college.
My point is that we've long had some federal position dealing with public education. I don't know why it was changed in 1979. Maybe the health people wanted to be separate from education, or vice versa. Maybe it was "cabinet member creep". Who knows? To reiterate, it's not like a federal cabinet level education position was a new thing back in 1979.
As I recall the situation, people wanted to emphasize the important of education to our society, and wanted to therefore make it its own cabinet position. Health, Education, & Welfare did seem to cover an awfully broad spectrum of issues, many or most of which were not really related.
They are on elementary and middle school. Which impacts readiness for high school. I understand that no one on this forum believes me about either the school I attended nor about my kids' school. But believe me or not, reality doesn't match elite districts on so many ways. I saw that in the difference between D11 and D20 and for that matter D49 when we lived in Colorado.
Or on the different focus of the districts around where we live now. The education elite needs to grasp the needs of farmers are different than the needs of upper class. And the world they live in is different. That's the communication gap I see over and over on this education forum.
So in other words, if pop was a farmer, sonny should be a farmer, too, and through the generations. You appear to be living back in the 1700s.
Is THAT how you regard people who believe that a good, publicly funded education should be available to ALL US students - regardless of where they live and what their parents do for a living?
You think this is some kind of "Left Wing" idea? I think it's a very AMERICAN idea.
We don't need vouchers, private schools, charter schools. Waldorf Schools, Yeshivas. Montessori schools or Parochial or Christian schools. Except for charter schools, the others have been available - and should be - as an alternative for people who want an alternative to public schools.
Our country like all industrialized nations, has the responsibility to provide an education to all children and young adults that is good - regardless of economic status.
As a Junior High School Student I spent one year at Long Island Lutheran HS.https://www.longislandlutheran.org/page# It was a good education, and while my parents encouraged me to attend, I missed my public school friends and disliked the bus ride.
However, LIL, is an excellent preparatory school serving students of all faiths. Not many of the schools are of this caliber - certainly NONE of the Charter Schools.
A decent public education is a RIGHT that should be granted to all Americans. And as Americans, we should all be willing to "chip in" to support those schools - to better our country, and our society.
That is how I refer to leftist scum that believe the public education system is a petri dish for their social agenda to be carried out in because that's what's going on in our schools today. Why do you think the number of parents that are pulling their kids out of public schools to home school them or send them to private school is at an all time high?
I am not opposed to public education in theory in the least but in practice it is currently failing our students. We're falling further and further behind the rest of the world. I don't understand why liberals are so opposed to vouchers. I pay 6200 a year in property taxes in my town, most of which goes to the local school. Our local school does common core and has a school board that doesn't give a damn what parents think so why shouldn't I get a voucher for the amount I paid in to a school that tells me to go f myself? It's my money!
That is how I refer to leftist scum that believe the public education system is a petri dish for their social agenda to be carried out in because that's what's going on in our schools today. Why do you think the number of parents that are pulling their kids out of public schools to home school them or send them to private school is at an all time high?
I am not opposed to public education in theory in the least but in practice it is currently failing our students. We're falling further and further behind the rest of the world. I don't understand why liberals are so opposed to vouchers. I pay 6200 a year in property taxes in my town, most of which goes to the local school. Our local school does common core and has a school board that doesn't give a damn what parents think so why shouldn't I get a voucher for the amount I paid in to a school that tells me to go f myself? It's my money!
Since when do we get to individually decide where our taxes go? Yes, let's open that gate and allow everyone to decide individually how taxes are spent! what could possibly go wrong?
Btw, for all you "leftist scum" talk, have you ever looked at which states have the best public schools? I'll give you a hint, they are typically pretty blue.
Simple answers don't usually solve complex issues.
At what grade level are you going to begin dividing the students into those tracks?
What about late-bloomers...and there are a lot of them. They're just stuck in the track some adult assigned them to?
I've known many a successful doctor or lawyer or computer programmer who will admit that they were lousy in K-12 and didn't find themselves until college.
You have trouble makers in all grades. And perhaps if we take the reward of trouble making away, they might decide not to be and move back into regular classes. Or might not. Either way, the vast majority of kids will get the education they deserve uninterrupted by the trouble makers.
As for tracking and late bloomers, anyone can move off the track if they show the aptitude and effort. For some reason you see it almost as punishment. We see it as providing the best education possible to match the kids aptitude. Not everyone is meant to be a doctor, not is everyone meant to be a plumber. What's wrong with helping kids get the best education most matched to them instead of the one size fits none approach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
So in other words, if pop was a farmer, sonny should be a farmer, too, and through the generations. You appear to be living back in the 1700s.
My dad was a farmer. I'm a steely eyed missile man. So there goes your argument right there. Went to a school that covered all 13 grades K-12 in one building. And what, you think farmers are just dumb hillbillies chewing on straw while hand cranking a Hoyt Clagwell* tractor or staring at a mule's butt? Talk about 1700s. Agriculture is a high tech field, with more technology on most farms than you have in school. But my whole point previously is that local control allows the school to adapt their education and curriculum to what the students in the local community need.
There are always some kids who will be exceptions, who have different ideas. But I'm not so arrogant to believe that what works best in X County schools down the road will be the right answer in D11 or D20 which will be different than the right answer Houston. Why is it so difficult to believe that local parents might know their needs better than someone 1500 miles away?
That is how I refer to leftist scum that believe the public education system is a petri dish for their social agenda to be carried out in because that's what's going on in our schools today. Why do you think the number of parents that are pulling their kids out of public schools to home school them or send them to private school is at an all time high?
I am not opposed to public education in theory in the least but in practice it is currently failing our students. We're falling further and further behind the rest of the world. I don't understand why liberals are so opposed to vouchers. I pay 6200 a year in property taxes in my town, most of which goes to the local school. Our local school does common core and has a school board that doesn't give a damn what parents think so why shouldn't I get a voucher for the amount I paid in to a school that tells me to go f myself? It's my money!
1. Over 96% of all students are still in regular schools, so don't exaggerate.
2. This is the education forum, so please take your "leftist scum" routine to the politics and controversies sub-forum.
3. A nation ought to have a national education agenda. And most do. Common core is nothing more than a curriculum that is good for kids. Personally I don't think it should be forced on states, but I think it's basically a good curriculum designed by people who actually know how to teach.
4. Since school boards are elected, I imagine they care very much what parents think. Otherwise they won't continue to be the school board. But that is not the same as caving into parents who have their own agenda, and just like other aspects of local, state, and national government, no elected official can please everyone.
You have trouble makers in all grades. And perhaps if we take the reward of trouble making away, they might decide not to be and move back into regular classes. Or might not. Either way, the vast majority of kids will get the education they deserve uninterrupted by the trouble makers.
As for tracking and late bloomers, anyone can move off the track if they show the aptitude and effort. For some reason you see it almost as punishment. We see it as providing the best education possible to match the kids aptitude. Not everyone is meant to be a doctor, not is everyone meant to be a plumber. What's wrong with helping kids get the best education most matched to them instead of the one size fits none approach?
My dad was a farmer. I'm a steely eyed missile man. So there goes your argument right there. Went to a school that covered all 13 grades K-12 in one building. And what, you think farmers are just dumb hillbillies chewing on straw while hand cranking a Hoyt Clagwell* tractor or staring at a mule's butt? Talk about 1700s. Agriculture is a high tech field, with more technology on most farms than you have in school. But my whole point previously is that local control allows the school to adapt their education and curriculum to what the students in the local community need.
There are always some kids who will be exceptions, who have different ideas. But I'm not so arrogant to believe that what works best in X County schools down the road will be the right answer in D11 or D20 which will be different than the right answer Houston. Why is it so difficult to believe that local parents might know their needs better than someone 1500 miles away?
*extra credit
Very entertaining.
1. I have seen MANY kids who are troublemakers at some point in their school careers change and become relatively responsible, normal kids. I have seen many, if not most kids change their career goals multiple times while in high school or the early part of college.
2. Once you're in a "non-academic track", and have missed out on many basics for that level, it will almost impossible to make them up later. It is a problem we often see with students who move from one school system to another.
3. No, I don't see it as punishment. I see it as hate.
4. I didn't say anything negative about farmers. I grew up in a town where many of the kids lived on small farms. And almost none of them grew up to be farmers themselves. Some went to work in a local factory, others moved to the "big city" and worked for Kodak or Xerox, etc. The kids I grew up with that had parents who were farmers were also often the first generation to go to college and get out of my small town.
5. Do you typically know medicine better than your doctor? Do you typically know law better than your lawyer? Well, you don't education better than your educators. Why do I feel like I'm responding to Betsy?
You have trouble makers in all grades. And perhaps if we take the reward of trouble making away, they might decide not to be and move back into regular classes. Or might not. Either way, the vast majority of kids will get the education they deserve uninterrupted by the trouble makers.
As for tracking and late bloomers, anyone can move off the track if they show the aptitude and effort. For some reason you see it almost as punishment. We see it as providing the best education possible to match the kids aptitude. Not everyone is meant to be a doctor, not is everyone meant to be a plumber. What's wrong with helping kids get the best education most matched to them instead of the one size fits none approach?
My dad was a farmer. I'm a steely eyed missile man. So there goes your argument right there. Went to a school that covered all 13 grades K-12 in one building. And what, you think farmers are just dumb hillbillies chewing on straw while hand cranking a Hoyt Clagwell* tractor or staring at a mule's butt? Talk about 1700s. Agriculture is a high tech field, with more technology on most farms than you have in school. But my whole point previously is that local control allows the school to adapt their education and curriculum to what the students in the local community need.
There are always some kids who will be exceptions, who have different ideas. But I'm not so arrogant to believe that what works best in X County schools down the road will be the right answer in D11 or D20 which will be different than the right answer Houston. Why is it so difficult to believe that local parents might know their needs better than someone 1500 miles away?
*extra credit
On the kindle right now, so can't edit much.
I want to discuss the farmer issue. You're the one who suggested that kids in a farming community have different educational needs than urban/suburban kids have. You seemed to be the one who thinks farmers are dumb hillbillies. Sure, high schools in rural areas may offer some vo-ag courses such as this school: AG Science. and have a FFA club.
This is the school district where my parents' house is located. (It is not where I went to school;it didn't exist then. I went to a much more urban school.)
Vo-ag is a small part of the curriculum. Kids planning to go into ag, and who knows for sure at that age, need all the coursework any other student needs. There's no reason individual schools can't offer some of these options.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
