Should schools start after labor day? Does the early start trend help academic performance in any way? (biology, score)
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Gotcha! But even taking all those days away, you still can't have finals before winter break without starting in August. School semesters are 18 weeks. There are only 15 1/2 weeks from the day after Labor Day until December 22, the Friday before Christmas this year, and that's with no days off at all. So people have to decide what's more important to them, of all the options.
Colleges can get finals done by winter break and start after Labor Day because they have 15 week semesters. They generally only have 2-3 days off at Thanksgiving as well, at least IME. CU usually has classes on Wednesday before Thanksgiving and they start before Labor Day. Here's the calendar as well from St. Olaf College where one of my daughters went. As you can see, it's pretty tight. Academic Calendar | University of Colorado Boulder https://wp.stolaf.edu/registrar/file...c-Calendar.pdf
Yep - hence my stated preference for mid August starts!
You are probably right. But how is the weather in Estes Park?
A loss is a loss. My parents died 18 and 21 years ago. I still miss them.
They didn't have a calendar with all the highs and lows for Estes; that's why I posted Aspen. It's a little higher in altitude than Estes, so if anything, a little cooler.
I am really confused by the position(s) of Katarina Witt's argument
MN generally requires schools to start after labor day but just recently Minneapolis got a waiver Commonly asked questions
as they have a construction or remodeling project totalling $400,000 within the district.
Planned absences are excused absences if school work can be arranged to be made up. Not all learning take place in schools.
Makes me curious whether 15 week semesters with longer school days a better alternative? Maybe we can end the discrepancy between school and college/university calendars this way.
The most annoying calendars are those who start August 20 or slightly later and still have finals after the Christmas break but just a week after meaning students would need to spend the last week of vacation preparing for it.
In California the calendar or schedule creep first occurred in 1999 the first year when Staff development Days or teacher training days could no longer count toward the 180 days. They used to allow six of those days to be staff development days. Some districts just turned them to half days which still counted as a student day but kept the same calendar sans Staff training days. Others used the opportunity to change their calendars to start earlier usually beginning with a week before Labor day instead of after Labor Day but with training days off or a mid February President week break instead. There are also a few that added days in June but they are rare except in parts of SoCal. There are those who just moved the calendar to start and end a week earlier which I don't understand whats the point. For some reason most of SoCal did not embrace starting before labor day until a decade or more later than the rest of the state. As one poster mentioned LAUSD. I guess late elimination of year round schools in SoCal lead to them ti embracing early start for all students.
Interesting somewhere I heard that about a century ago the farming calendar actually more resembled year round schools today when schools were let out in fall to help with harvest but they went to school during the summer.
Some poster also mentioned water parks, its sad as public pools, aquatic centers, and water parks close down when school start mid August when they used to open until labor day. This means University students who are on the quarter system which starts mid September as well as adults can no longer enjoy these facilities when it is still summer time. This also means staff who work at these facilities lose their jobs early.
I mentioned the difference between Raging waters San Jose and San Dimas in an earlier post. Now that SoCal also embrace early starts San Dimas also closes early.
Also what are historical reasons why schools in most countries in the North Hemisphere start in the fall just a few places such as Japan start in the spring? Interestingly China starts in the fall in September even though Lunar New Years is traditionally the new start for everything. Would a spring start be better than a fall start in any way?
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 09-06-2017 at 02:06 PM..
For those who want school to start after Labor Day and end before Memorial Day, consider this: Most years* the time between Labor Day and the next year's Memorial Day is 38 weeks. For a 180-day school year that means that you could have at most nine weekdays off during the whole school year. Time off around Thanksgiving and Christmas alone would eat that up, with none left for spring break, conference or teacher work days, other holidays, etc.
*An exception is when Labor Day comes on the earliest possible date (9/1) and the next year is a leap year, which would cause Memorial Day to come as late as it can fall (5/31) with a 39-week stretch. Last time this happened was 2003-4, and the next will be in 2031-2. Before 1971 when Memorial Day always came on 5/30 instead of the last Monday in May it was different as well.
Having said that, I think whoever sets the dates for the AP tests ought to move them a little later (maybe the two weeks immediately before Memorial Day instead of starting the week of the first Monday of May, which would still be when school is in session for most districts).
Another bit of math here: If you want to finish the first semester before Christmas, and have the first semester no more than a few days shorter than the second one (once again assuming a 180-day year), then you couldn't get all that in unless you start no later than around the third week of August. Waiting until after Labor Day to start will typically result in 2-4 weeks of the first semester after the winter break.
For those who want school to start after Labor Day and end before Memorial Day, consider this: Most years* the time between Labor Day and the next year's Memorial Day is 38 weeks. For a 180-day school year that means that you could have at most nine weekdays off during the whole school year. Time off around Thanksgiving and Christmas alone would eat that up, with none left for spring break, conference or teacher work days, other holidays, etc.
*An exception is when Labor Day comes on the earliest possible date (9/1) and the next year is a leap year, which would cause Memorial Day to come as late as it can fall (5/31) with a 39-week stretch. Last time this happened was 2003-4, and the next will be in 2031-2. Before 1971 when Memorial Day always came on 5/30 instead of the last Monday in May it was different as well.
Having said that, I think whoever sets the dates for the AP tests ought to move them a little later (maybe the two weeks immediately before Memorial Day instead of starting the week of the first Monday of May, which would still be when school is in session for most districts).
Right on,
I never had a Labor Day to Memorial Day school year calendar back when I went to school. Back in the 1990s where I went always ran from Labor Day to week of June 16. The Thanksgiving break was three days. The Christmas break was always 2 weeks long and there are of course the regular holidays and a week long April break.
The longest summer break I remembered was June 11- September 8. Though they had an early Labor day the year before with a September 2 or 3 start.
Nowadays Memorial Day is often beginning of finals week. So even with early to mid August starts, but due to all the extra breaks in between, closing before Memorial Day is still more of the exception than the norm at least in California.
I am curious though maybe a longer school day would allow semesters to be 16 weeks instead of 18 weeks long and would allow the year to fit between those two dates. But I bet it would be a very hectic schedule this way, So I suggest moving testing to June to Air conditioned classrooms or parts of the school instead?
Apparently no one on City Data can provide data on how the modified calendar affected academic performance in terms of report card and testing results, Standardized, finals, AP, SAT, ACT, exit exam, etc. Also how many students as a percentage of all students take the AP exam anyways?
I still remember how kids loved those Staff Development Days or teacher training days back prior to 1999 as they don't have to go to school during those days. After that year for schools that did not start earlier or end later there was mostly only the traditional breaks and holidays left in the calendar meaning no break between Presidents Day and Spring break or between Labor Day and Veterans Day.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 09-06-2017 at 02:58 PM..
I am really confused by the position(s) of Katarina Witt's argument
MN generally requires schools to start after labor day but just recently Minneapolis got a waiverCommonly asked questions
as they have a construction or remodeling project totalling $400,000 within the district.
Planned absences are excused absences if school work can be arranged to be made up. Not all learning take place in schools.
Makes me curious whether 15 week semesters with longer school days a better alternative? Maybe we can end the discrepancy between school and college/university calendars this way.
The most annoying calendars are those who start August 20 or slightly later and still have finals after the Christmas break but just a week after meaning students would need to spend the last week of vacation preparing for it.
In California the calendar or schedule creep first occurred in 1999 the first year when Staff development Days or teacher training days could no longer count toward the 180 days. They used to allow six of those days to be staff development days. Some districts just turned them to half days which still counted as a student day but kept the same calendar sans Staff training days. Others used the opportunity to change their calendars to start earlier usually beginning with a week before Labor day instead of after Labor Day but with training days off or a mid February President week break instead. There are also a few that added days in June but they are rare except in parts of SoCal. There are those who just moved the calendar to start and end a week earlier which I don't understand whats the point. For some reason most of SoCal did not embrace starting before labor day until a decade or more later than the rest of the state. As one poster mentioned LAUSD. I guess late elimination of year round schools in SoCal lead to them ti embracing early start for all students.
Interesting somewhere I heard that about a century ago the farming calendar actually more resembled year round schools today when schools were let out in fall to help with harvest but they went to school during the summer.
Some poster also mentioned water parks, its sad as public pools, aquatic centers, and water parks close down when school start mid August when they used to open until labor day. This means University students who are on the quarter system which starts mid September as well as adults can no longer enjoy these facilities when it is still summer time. This also means staff who work at these facilities loose their jobs early.
I mentioned the difference between Raging waters San Jose and San Dimas in an earlier post. Now that SoCal also embrace early starts San Dimas also closes early.
Also what are historical reasons why schools in most countries in the North Hemisphere start in the fall just a few places such as Japan start in the spring? Interestingly China starts in the fall in September even though Lunar New Years is traditionally the new start for everything. Would a spring start be better than a fall start in any way?
Follow the colors: Yes. What's your question?
There is evidence that kids that miss more than 10% of their school days do not do as well in school as kids with better attendance records. To say that "(n)ot all learning take place in schools" devalues school attendance. You note that the person who said they always took extra time off at Thanksgiving also said they stopped when the kids got into middle school. I know another family that did similarly. I know yet another family that took off a week in October to go to Hawaii when their kids were in MS, and the kids told them to never do that again. It was really difficult to make up all the work. Kids will tell you, every day counts in MS and especially high school. While it's one thing to take your kid out of school to see the eclipse in Wyoming, it's another to go to Disney, the beach in Mexico/Hawaii (popular vacation spots for people in Colorado), skiing, etc. 10 Facts About School Attendance - Attendance Works Attendance Works
Just how long of school days do you want to have? In my district, high school days are already 7 1/2 hours with a half hour lunch, about as long as a work day. There's no need to synchronize K-12 school and college calendars. I just brought up college to point out that their semesters are shorter.
While a few people did say they/their kids had homework, etc over winter break, most indicated they did not, or it was minimal in amount. As I said earlier, in my kids' high school, finals were about the third week in January. They most certainly were not studying for finals over winter break, never had a paper due. I think that was a school policy re: papers and major homework.
I'm not in California, cannot comment on their school systems.
Yes, I've read that, too.
Oh, cry me a river! Usually high school kids are working those facilities, so they have to be back in school. Actually, our local pool was open some hours until Labor Day, despite school starting August 16.
No idea. In many cases, things happen because "that's how we've always done it" and for no other good reason.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
... how is the weather in Estes Park?
I will assure you the weather in EP was too good to go to school in 1970's (I seldom bothered with school... and was in EP at the time)
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate
I am really confused by the position(s) of Katarina Witt's argument
...
Don't be,... A "Public School centric perspective," there are better options (thank goodness). MUCH better and MANY better options and benefits to the community, families, and students. For some, it may be Public School, hopefully fewer every yr.
(4 generations of public school teachers in my family)
There is evidence that kids that miss more than 10% of their school days do not do as well in school as kids with better attendance records. To say that "(n)ot all learning take place in schools" devalues school attendance. You note that the person who said they always took extra time off at Thanksgiving also said they stopped when the kids got into middle school. I know another family that did similarly. I know yet another family that took off a week in October to go to Hawaii when their kids were in MS, and the kids told them to never do that again. It was really difficult to make up all the work. Kids will tell you, every day counts in MS and especially high school. While it's one thing to take your kid out of school to see the eclipse in Wyoming, it's another to go to Disney, the beach in Mexico/Hawaii (popular vacation spots for people in Colorado), skiing, etc. 10 Facts About School Attendance - Attendance Works Attendance Works
Just how long of school days do you want to have? In my district, high school days are already 7 1/2 hours with a half hour lunch, about as long as a work day. There's no need to synchronize K-12 school and college calendars. I just brought up college to point out that their semesters are shorter.
While a few people did say they/their kids had homework, etc over winter break, most indicated they did not, or it was minimal in amount. As I said earlier, in my kids' high school, finals were about the third week in January. They most certainly were not studying for finals over winter break, never had a paper due. I think that was a school policy re: papers and major homework.
I'm not in California, cannot comment on their school systems.
Yes, I've read that, too.
Oh, cry me a river! Usually high school kids are working those facilities, so they have to be back in school. Actually, our local pool was open some hours until Labor Day, despite school starting August 16.
No idea. In many cases, things happen because "that's how we've always done it" and for no other good reason.
I am taking it as you think schools should open their doors in September after Labor Day.and that we should have more long weekends to avoid planned absence vacation arrangements by parents.
Wow I never heard of a 7 and half hours school day. Most places I been to had five to six 1/2 depending on grade level. Though I do believe longer school days to cram may be too overwhelming though it's an idea to sychronize with universities or colleges.
I had never received assignments of any kind over Christmas break and I am sure most people don't but I remember back when schools started after Labor Day the finals were on the last week of January allowing plenty of time to study in January while totally relaxing over Christmas break. But when they creeped the calendar earlier but they stillgave the exams just a week after the break ends. If one don't start studying early on their own you better be a good cram study person as there are just a few days to prepare for it.
Some college students do work in aquatic centers and water parks. Though there are many others who wish to visit the parks but are unable to because they had closed down. It hurts business at these parks as well as they cannot open early to compromise as school end times are not uniform either.
I have said at least twice that I don't have strong feelings one way or another about when school starts. My preference would be for school to start in late August/early September and be out by early June. There is no way to have everything one wants-a start after Labor Day, a week off at Thanksgiving, finals done by winter break, a week of spring break, school out by Memorial Day. Even in the school district I went to, we weren't out every year by Mem. Day, and that was with very little time off. There has to be some school time in June and/or August.
In regard to water parks and other outdoor activities, the school schedule should not be dependent on what works best for them, or for the college students working for them. They're totally irrelevant to the discussion.
The interests of the K-12 students should take precedence.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-06-2017 at 09:12 PM..
Reason: move a sentence
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