Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, you can actually learn to be fluent in a language without taking classes, living an immersion experience, or having a tutor.
Youtube can be very helpful in this regard and will save you a ton of money.
It's one of the better learning options on youtube.
But, learning languages to a level of fluency takes a lot more effort than most people are willing to give.
And have you ever put your supposed "fluency" to the test?
By, say, flying to France, taking the train to a small town there, walking into a cafe full of French farmers, and attempting to engage in a discussion on EU farming subsidies?
from what I've seen, spending 4 years on educational videos on youtube will give you more knowledge than you'll ever learn in university.
it teaches you how to make money, practical skills, and all the crap you should have learned in college (but didn't, because they didn't offer those courses, or you were required to take other stupid classes to satisfy units)
So when you need legal advice, you don't waste time with someone that possesses a law degree - you just find a friend who has watched a lot of YouTube videos... right?
And when you have a tumor that needs to be removed, to hell with a surgeon - you just find some guy who watched a lot of YouTube videos and has some scalpels... right?
And you'd prefer to travel on airliners designed not by credentialed engineers of various sorts - you figure a plane designed by YouTube-watchers is good enough... right?
So when you need legal advice, you don't waste time with someone that possesses a law degree - you just find a friend who has watched a lot of YouTube videos... right?
And when you have a tumor that needs to be removed, to hell with a surgeon - you just find some guy who watched a lot of YouTube videos and has some scalpels... right?
And you'd prefer to travel on airliners designed not by credentialed engineers of various sorts - you figure a plane designed by YouTube-watchers is good enough... right?
The purpose of college is to give a diploma which you can put on your resume to get the opportunity to apply for a job, and hopefully talk your way into getting the job.
Diplomas are awarded re: high-school and vocational training/certification; else, the purpose of a college is a degree often relative to professional qualification. One does not 'talk their way' into a career re: law, business, medicine, engineering, teaching and so on.
Diplomas are awarded re: high-school and vocational training/certification; else, the purpose of a college is a degree often relative to professional qualification. One does not 'talk their way' into a career re: law, business, medicine, engineering, teaching and so on.
One does in fact convince an interviewer they are the right person for the job. Every job interview is a chance to talk your way into a job, or out of one. No one receives any professional qualifications in any college course. When you get on the job you pretty much discard everything you learned in college and learn from scratch how to do it their way. You don't come out of medical school a doctor, or law school a lawyer, or a programmer or engineer. You come out with a survey of general knowledge. You then start from scratch on day one of the job. And you better realize you don't know anything about it until you learn it on the job, or your employment will be a short one.
One does in fact convince an interviewer they are the right person for the job.
No disagreement with the above; that said, there's a big difference between the above statement vs. your (previously) quoted (nonsensical) statement below, which is what I was addressing in my post #84.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez
The purpose of college is to give a diploma which you can put on your resume to get the opportunity to apply for a job, and hopefully talk your way into getting the job. Youtube can give you knowledge, but not a diploma.
No disagreement with the above; that said, there's a big difference between the above statement vs. your (previously) quoted (nonsensical) statement below, which is what I was addressing in my post #84.
Not nonsensical at all. Try applying for a job without a diploma, what normally happens? Since I have an MBA and a BA and spent a year in law school before I decided not to be a lawyer, it's my experience that the diploma is the reason people go to school, and it's the only thing that justifies learning years of nonsense that has no bearing on anything except to provide an income for college administrators and teachers.
Not nonsensical at all. Try applying for a job without a diploma, what normally happens? Since I have an MBA and a BA and spent a year in law school before I decided not to be a lawyer, it's my experience that the diploma is the reason people go to school, and it's the only thing that justifies learning years of nonsense that has no bearing on anything except to provide an income for college administrators and teachers.
So the word "diploma" comes from the Latin 'diplomata" which was a word that referred to an official state document in the Roman Empire. It was derived from the Ancient Greek word "diploô", "to fold," which referred to folded parchment. The Roman Empire issued diplomas to veterans of the legion who served 25 years, in order to prove their service and indicate proof of entitlement to the accordant rights and privileges of veterans. College degrees still have the phrase "rights and privileges pertaining" or something like that in them.
A college degree has always been the form of certification for entry into institutionalized professions. Before the middle ages, education was typically certified by some kind of letter of recommendation. In effect a degree but they didn't call it that. The names of different levels of degrees were institutionalized when the Catholic Church institutionalized and needed a designation for how well-educated a priest or teacher of the Bible was.
In a civilization that has professions requiring advanced skills, among which are the general skills of high level reading, writing, critical thinking, the ability to problem-solve independently and know when to follow directions or take independent initiative. You need something to prove that you are capable of the kind of work the profession will expect from you. If you have a better idea than a diploma of how to do this, I'd like to hear it. Would you prefer every place of employment have some kind of testing regime? That seems...inefficient.
In fact if you look at the wording of most college degrees as pictured below, you will see that they are simply institutionalized letters of recommendation, certifying that the bearer successfully completed some kind of activity, program, or service, not dissimilar to a certification of military service or anything like that.
I'm curious what you think would be better?
This does not say she is an engineer. It says she has fulfilled a course program at the bachelor level with an engineering emphasis and they recommend that she be considered to have similar potential as others with who have gone through that course.
Last edited by redguard57; 01-03-2021 at 11:48 PM..
I don't see where we disagree. It seems you and I agree on what a diploma is and how necessary it is to seek employment. In fact I said that the diploma is the only reason to go to college, so you can use it to seek employment. I also said that I learned skills in college that served me at work. Mostly how to cram, how to stick it out, how to problem solve, how to put up with a ton of nonsense from the professors/bosses. I also said almost all the subject matter taught in classes was completely irrelevant and quickly forgotten, and that virtually all learning in any profession takes place on the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
So the word "diploma" comes from the Latin 'diplomata" which was a word that referred to an official state document in the Roman Empire. It was derived from the Ancient Greek word "diploô", "to fold," which referred to folded parchment. The Roman Empire issued diplomas to veterans of the legion who served 25 years, in order to prove their service and indicate proof of entitlement to the accordant rights and privileges of veterans. College degrees still have the phrase "rights and privileges pertaining" or something like that in them.
A college degree has always been the form of certification for entry into institutionalized professions. Before the middle ages, education was typically certified by some kind of letter of recommendation. In effect a degree but they didn't call it that. The names of different levels of degrees were institutionalized when the Catholic Church institutionalized and needed a designation for how well-educated a priest or teacher of the Bible was.
In a civilization that has professions requiring advanced skills, among which are the general skills of high level reading, writing, critical thinking, the ability to problem-solve independently and know when to follow directions or take independent initiative. You need something to prove that you are capable of the kind of work the profession will expect from you. If you have a better idea than a diploma of how to do this, I'd like to hear it. Would you prefer every place of employment have some kind of testing regime? That seems...inefficient.
In fact if you look at the wording of most college degrees as pictured below, you will see that they are simply institutionalized letters of recommendation, certifying that the bearer successfully completed some kind of activity, program, or service, not dissimilar to a certification of military service or anything like that.
I'm curious what you think would be better?
This does not say she is an engineer. It says she has fulfilled a course program at the bachelor level with an engineering emphasis and they recommend that she be considered to have similar potential as others with who have gone through that course.
I don't see where we disagree. It seems you and I agree on what a diploma is and how necessary it is to seek employment. In fact I said that the diploma is the only reason to go to college, so you can use it to seek employment. I also said that I learned skills in college that served me at work. Mostly how to cram, how to stick it out, how to problem solve, how to put up with a ton of nonsense from the professors/bosses. I also said almost all the subject matter taught in classes was completely irrelevant and quickly forgotten, and that virtually all learning in any profession takes place on the job.
So I've been de-cluttering & going through my old stuff this past month.
Speaking for myself, reading my old journals was an eye opening experience of what college did for me. What I wrote before college was not only poorly written, it was embarrassingly banal and immature. I would never hire the 18-20 year old version of me (I didn't start college until later). My thought process was just stupid.
Fast forward a few years and it's very clear the impact of college. My writing improved remarkably, and just how I looked at the world, how I dealt with other people, with my relationships, how I organized my life, how I responded to things that happened, etc.. became noticeably much more intelligent based on those journals. The post-college version of me at 25-26 is someone I would interview. Not because of any particular skills, just the air of general competence.
Yeah I don't remember much of the specific information that was taught. When I've looked at my transcript, there are classes that I don't even remember taking. But that's not the point.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
