School Group Projects

[CarnivalGal]

I hate them because I always seemed to be the one doing more work than other people. However, I see the value because, as an adult, I still deal with the same crap from co-workers. I think it does teach you how to handle and deal with working with other people.

[North Beach Person]

Grad classes in Principal School (also known as Educational Leadership) were heavily weighted towards group work/projects. The main problem I found was that, in many cases, people couldn't get out of their classroom roles/disciplines and look at the problem from a school wide perspective.

I'm afraid I was quite rude many times shaking them out of that perspective.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by CarnivalGal

I hate them because I always seemed to be the one doing more work than other people. However, I see the value because, as an adult, I still deal with the same crap from co-workers. I think it does teach you how to handle and deal with working with other people.

Exactly. It didn't matter if it was when I was working in the grocery store to work my way through college, or later as teacher or school administrator. A great deal of work was always done in a group setting. That's just the way it is. Few people have a job where they sit at a desk in a solitary room working alone. People need to get used to it.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Grad classes in Principal School (also known as Educational Leadership) were heavily weighted towards group work/projects. The main problem I found was that, in many cases, people couldn't get out of their classroom roles/disciplines and look at the problem from a school wide perspective.

I'm afraid I was quite rude many times shaking them out of that perspective.

You're right...it always was a challenge.

But I think the best thing I ever learned was from Vic Schmidt, my old geology professor. We were on a field trip down into central Pennsylvania and at one stop I asked, "Did the glaciers get this far south?" He glared at me and said, "Dammit, look around. Figure it out yourself". Group work is, ironically, when you figure it out yourself. I'm convinced that more often than not, school (including group projects) is not about the content, but that the content is merely a tool to learn how to learn and how to work...including in a group. Most teachers need to be more controlling when they assign group projects, but the real learning there is the student figuring out group dynamics...something most of them will have to work through for most of their life.

[tnff]

So what are students supposed to learn from group projects?

Let's see. There's Lazy Larry. He knows he'll get the same grade as long as Stu Studious and Annie A are in the group. Then there's Chester Cheater. He'll just copy someone else's work and claim it as his own. Sociable Sally will spend the whole time chatting with anyone within range or on her phone. Devious Dave just doesn't care. In fact the only thing he cares about is sabotaging Stu Studious and Annie A to bring their grades down just because he can. Stu and Annie will end up doing all the work because the grade actually matters to them.

So what exactly did they "learn" from this project other than goof offs and freeloaders will goof off and free load? They already knew that. Or were they magically somehow supposed to transform into magnificent leaders with the gift of rhetoric to convince the others to suddenly change their ways and become A+ students? No, that's Adolf over there in the gang section. If the teacher can't motivate those students, why think other students can?

In the real world, Lazy Larry and the other freeloaders either get fired or top performers change jobs and leave. There's a reason why top performers -- A's -- whether sports, business, work, any field, want to hang out with other A's. In school however they don't have that choice.

[mitsguy2001]

Originally Posted by tnff

So what are students supposed to learn from group projects?

Let's see. There's Lazy Larry. He knows he'll get the same grade as long as Stu Studious and Annie A are in the group. Then there's Chester Cheater. He'll just copy someone else's work and claim it as his own. Sociable Sally will spend the whole time chatting with anyone within range or on her phone. Devious Dave just doesn't care. In fact the only thing he cares about is sabotaging Stu Studious and Annie A to bring their grades down just because he can. Stu and Annie will end up doing all the work because the grade actually matters to them.

So what exactly did they "learn" from this project other than goof offs and freeloaders will goof off and free load? They already knew that. Or were they magically somehow supposed to transform into magnificent leaders with the gift of rhetoric to convince the others to suddenly change their ways and become A+ students? No, that's Adolf over there in the gang section. If the teacher can't motivate those students, why think other students can?

The teacher, rightly or wrongly, would say that Stu Studious and Annie A have "bad social skills" and that they "need to learn to work with others". The teacher will also likely throw "Life isn't fair" in there a few times.

In the real world, Lazy Larry and the other freeloaders either get fired or top performers change jobs and leave. There's a reason why top performers -- A's -- whether sports, business, work, any field, want to hang out with other A's. In school however they don't have that choice.

Unfortunately, that is not true. The working world is not a meritocracy. If Lazy Larry is the boss's friend or relative, or if he's tall, attractive, "charismatic", well connected, a "natural leader", etc, or a protected minority, then he will keep his job while everybody else has to work harder. Stu Studious and Annie A will be accused of not being good "social fits", and they will be labeled as more "academic" than real world oriented. Chester Cheater will likely still cheat and not get caught.

[2 Scoops]

Originally Posted by tnff

So what are students supposed to learn from group projects?

Let's see. There's Lazy Larry. He knows he'll get the same grade as long as Stu Studious and Annie A are in the group. Then there's Chester Cheater. He'll just copy someone else's work and claim it as his own. Sociable Sally will spend the whole time chatting with anyone within range or on her phone. Devious Dave just doesn't care. In fact the only thing he cares about is sabotaging Stu Studious and Annie A to bring their grades down just because he can. Stu and Annie will end up doing all the work because the grade actually matters to them.

So what exactly did they "learn" from this project other than goof offs and freeloaders will goof off and free load? They already knew that. Or were they magically somehow supposed to transform into magnificent leaders with the gift of rhetoric to convince the others to suddenly change their ways and become A+ students? No, that's Adolf over there in the gang section. If the teacher can't motivate those students, why think other students can?

In the real world, Lazy Larry and the other freeloaders either get fired or top performers change jobs and leave. There's a reason why top performers -- A's -- whether sports, business, work, any field, want to hang out with other A's. In school however they don't have that choice.

What about Gail Ghost and Arthur Absent? The team members who hardly ever show up? In the workforce,
I had a male co-worker who wasn't shy at all about taking off and taking full advantage of sick leave (he was a healthy man, by the way). But was also a "scammer." I noticed he got a better evaluation than I did by a male boss who belongs to an ethnic group who does not believe in females getting ahead in the workplace. In real life, people have to deal with that junk or shall I say, "challenge" as well.

Thanks for all who commented. I didn't know this thread came back to life!

In days of COVID and social distancing, I'm guessing school team projects fell by the wayside.