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I answered your question. We, currently, teach to the middle or low end of the class but gifted kids get ahead in spite of that. Our focusing on raising the bottom doesn't seem to stop gifted kids from getting ahead so doing so won't.
'You' may currently teach that way, however that's not the case in our district.
Here, they teach to the top just as much as to the middle, low and special needs. There are a few teachers here and there that tend to teach as you do, but the vast majority teaches to the district's philosophy. In part that philosophy states that 'every student is uniquely capable and deserves to learn each day'.
My 6th grade daughter had an experience in 4th grade that begs to completely differ with your above thought. She is a very advanced student along with being gifted. Her 4th grade homeroom/writing teacher and her reading teacher didn't believe in teaching differently. Her growth in academics ground to an almost complete halt in 4th grade. The one bright spot was the teacher who taught science/social studies because he had a passion for the subject. The math teacher began to offer her something better the second half of the year when she finally recognized the need.
Despite the discussions and solutions offered, it was basically a lost year for her education and she didn't really recover from it until this year-6th grade.
Thankfully that's the only time I've run into that issue while having kids in school for 22 years now.
In 6th grade she is in Pre Ap Math and ELA classes and a GT Science class. So they definitely reach out to the kids who need it.
My son is in 1st grade and is a very gifted child, not simply advanced. His brain just works very differently than other students. We have had his K teacher, 1st grade teacher, GT specialist and counselor all on board to offer him lessons that meet his own individual needs, while still allowing him to be the typical first grader he is in every other way. I haven't had any need to demand it, they see the need and work to see how far they can take him themselves.
I am so very thankful our district does not take the attitude that they should only teach the minimum, and instead recognize that they can and should accomplish teaching to each level. They understand that the better they serve each student, the better contribution to society they will make in return. That is the purpose of public education.
Reality is that it benefits society more to teach 10 children to read than to give 10 gifted kids an honors class.
What if one of those gifted kids is the kid who would cure cancer if you got him interested in biology, but since your class is geared toward idiots, he doesn't develop that interest? Still feel you've benefited society?
Point is, neither one of us knows if it benefits society more to lavish attention on 10 random smart kids or 10 random dumb kids. That's why we give the smart kids smart classes and the dumb kids dumb classes, and when we have to combine the two, we keep the class smart and let the dumb kids fail. You know, kind of like life.
No, they can always move up a grade. And it's not because I'm overworked. It's because it cheats other students who are struggling to just get to average. You don't give more to the ones who have more when you have kids who don't have enough. Giving more to the gifted is like someone who has already eaten taking cuts in line ahead of someone who hasn't to get seconds. The gifted child already has what society has deemed public school should teach for that grade level and then some. I think we get more bang for our buck, as a society, if we help the child who can't read yet first. The simple solution to handling gifted kids is just move them up a grade. Why do you need a special class that teaches the same material taught in the next grade?
This is so inaccurate on so many levels that it's quite humorous actually.
A truly gifted child is not helped by moving up a grade. An advanced child may be, but not a gifted child. There is quite a difference, which you should know if your own child is gifted.
Teaching a gifted child in the same manner of a child who is not, is like putting them in size 11 shoe when they wear a size 6. It's like feeding them hay when they need fruits and vegetables. It simply is not giving them what they need.
A gifted child often needs to learn the same grade level information as everyone else. The difference is they may need to go deeper or broader into the lesson than the other children can typically handle. If they are doing a book report, for example, they may need to present it through a complicated power point presentation while the other children hand in a one page report.
In a recent reply of mine I spoke of my son. He is absolutely a typical 1st grader in every single way, except academically. Moving him up one grade would do absolutely nothing for him academically. The students who skip several grades are typically those who don't consider themselves part of that age group in any way. They aren't interested in the same things and don't participate in the same activities outside of school. My son is the polar opposite of that. He fits right in socially, physically and emotionally with his age peers.
So he needs to be taught in a manner that allows him to be true to his 1st grade self yet works to the level of need he has academically. Period.
ETA - By middle/high school, you cannot skip a grade without much prior planning and lots of extra work since you have to follow a certain plan in acquiring the correct number of credits in the right order, so one would have to presume you mean skipping grades in elementary school. That in itself also has repercussions as they are then later dealing with students dating, driving and such when they are many years younger.....just a footnote.
'You' may currently teach that way, however that's not the case in our district.
Here, they teach to the top just as much as to the middle, low and special needs. There are a few teachers here and there that tend to teach as you do, but the vast majority teaches to the district's philosophy. In part that philosophy states that 'every student is uniquely capable and deserves to learn each day'.
My 6th grade daughter had an experience in 4th grade that begs to completely differ with your above thought. She is a very advanced student along with being gifted. Her 4th grade homeroom/writing teacher and her reading teacher didn't believe in teaching differently. Her growth in academics ground to an almost complete halt in 4th grade. The one bright spot was the teacher who taught science/social studies because he had a passion for the subject. The math teacher began to offer her something better the second half of the year when she finally recognized the need.
Despite the discussions and solutions offered, it was basically a lost year for her education and she didn't really recover from it until this year-6th grade.
Thankfully that's the only time I've run into that issue while having kids in school for 22 years now.
In 6th grade she is in Pre Ap Math and ELA classes and a GT Science class. So they definitely reach out to the kids who need it.
My son is in 1st grade and is a very gifted child, not simply advanced. His brain just works very differently than other students. We have had his K teacher, 1st grade teacher, GT specialist and counselor all on board to offer him lessons that meet his own individual needs, while still allowing him to be the typical first grader he is in every other way. I haven't had any need to demand it, they see the need and work to see how far they can take him themselves.
I am so very thankful our district does not take the attitude that they should only teach the minimum, and instead recognize that they can and should accomplish teaching to each level. They understand that the better they serve each student, the better contribution to society they will make in return. That is the purpose of public education.
Growth does not stagnate because the class is too slow. My experience with my gifted daughter is she stagnates when she needs a rest. She has always grown, academically/intellectually in fits and starts. If I graphed her progress, it would be a step function not because of the school but because of her (she was in a self paced program). So I don't find this odd at all.
My dd would make a major jump then stay there a while and just when it looked like her peers were about to catch up to her, she'd jump again. So this could simply have been the learning curve for the child in question. My dd makes her jumps whether in a G&T program or not. When she's not, she just does more, goes deeper, annoys the teacher until they move her up a grade . Took them 5 weeks this year. I half think they thought they were teaching her a lesson by moving her up a year into honors math but it took her only 2 weeks to catch up and it's been straight A's since then. They've already told her she'll split her day between the high school and middle school in 8th grade and have enough credits to graduate at the end of 11th grade if she wishes or she can take college classes, on their dime (mom is going for this option ) until she would have graduated.
To be honest, if a gifted child's progress depends on what the teacher teaches, I'd be questioning the lable. Honestly, my dd learns more out of school than in. Often schoolwork is just getting a check mark for her but she'll research things at home on the computer, reads tons of books (we're keeping Borders in business because she likes to own her books), run her own experiments and often talk with her parents who are both highly educated. School does not stop her from leaping forward when it's time to take that leap. We've become accustomed to the waiting time between leaps with her, however, because they are natural to her. It's as if there is a settling in time after each leap.
If someone told me that their gifted child was stagnating because the teacher wasn't accomodating her, I'd tell them to have her tested to find out if she's really gifted. Think about it. Kids spend 3/4 of their time out of school. It makes no sense that what happens 1/4th of the time would prevent them from growing if it's their natural tendency to grow. I find that what happens at home is more important than what happens at school. My daughter spends more time with me than she does at school so the learning opportunities here matter more in this regard. What school does is make sure she hits all the check marks the state says she needs to hit along the way.
I guess I just don't believe that education begins and ends at school. I think learning happens during non school hours too. It is not unusual for my dd to watch a science show with me and then for us to have two hour conversation on why things work the way they do.
I don't find school either stops my dd from growing or makes her grow. She grows when she grows in spite of school or anything else. Now she will use whatever means are available when it's time. She'll drive her teachers (and her parents) nuts. Fortunately, we live in a high tech age so she can make her own learning happen and does. I see the same traits in the kids I teach at school who are gifted and in my nieces and nephews who are gifted. The only time I see school being an issue is with kids I'd question whether or not they really are gifted. School doens't seem to help or hurt the gifted kids I know. It's just school. The only advantage I see to G&T programs is they can do their learning at school and have more free time at home to be kids. Now that my dd is no longer in a G&T program, she does spend more time reading and researching at home but that fits her personality so it's really not an issue. She's a lot like her mom. I can spend weeks researching and digesting data and enjoy every minute of it.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-05-2009 at 06:21 AM..
No, I don't think brilliance is amped up normal intelligence. Please link to the post where I said that. What I've said is when you're born at an advantage, the world doesn't owe you because of it. If anything, the gifted child bears more responsibility for their own education because they are gifted. They are more capable so more should be expected of them. I really don't get the insistance they NEED special programs. Do they cease to be gifted if we don't treat them special? Either they're gifted or they're not. They won't stop being gifted if no one offers honors classes.
If they're that ahead that it's causing issues, move them up until you find a level that doesn't create issues. There is no need for special programs for the already advantaged.
How about this same post, next sentence? Or next paragraph? How about any post in which you've said gifted kids need to do more busy work, or suggested just moving them along faster?
Giftedness isn't about doing more or faster, it's about doing differently.
How about this same post, next sentence? Or next paragraph? How about any post in which you've said gifted kids need to do more, or suggested just moving them along faster?
Giftedness isn't about doing more or faster, it's about doing differently.
You are misreading my posts. I do believe that gifted results in ahead but that doesn't mean I think giftedness is amped up normal intelligence. The ahead part is easy to accomodate by moving kids up a grade. That also cures not challenging them on grade level. Yes, I think the gifted child should fill in the blanks if a jump leaves any. I just watched my dd do this when the school decided to jump her 5 weeks into the year. She did it all by herself. Ok, she did ask me to explain some algebra concepts she wasn't in class to learn but that's it.
The purpose of school is to make sure kids hit all the markers. It's not to cater to an individual learning style. If you need something beyond that, you need to go find it elsewhere. Yes, I think the gifted child needs to figure out how to fit the system not the system fit the gifted child. There are too few gifted children to spend our resources on them at the expense of other kids and if your school system isn't large enough to fill those gifted classes to capacity, that is, exactly, what you do.
I don't know about other schools but from conversations with the honors teachers, honors classes are simply faster paced versions of the regular class in my school. They're not something special beyond the faster pace (more like college). They're just faster. And the kids complain about this . They don't like the extra work. I'm not sure what they think an honors class should be but apparently, speeding up and covering more material isn't it. They're in for a rude awakening when they get to college and find they will have to do most of their learning on their own.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-05-2009 at 08:04 AM..
What if one of those gifted kids is the kid who would cure cancer if you got him interested in biology, but since your class is geared toward idiots, he doesn't develop that interest? Still feel you've benefited society?
Point is, neither one of us knows if it benefits society more to lavish attention on 10 random smart kids or 10 random dumb kids. That's why we give the smart kids smart classes and the dumb kids dumb classes, and when we have to combine the two, we keep the class smart and let the dumb kids fail. You know, kind of like life.
That's a very BIG IF and they'll probably do that anyway. Do you really think not having honors classes will stop someone from achieving greatness? I don't believe Albert Einstein had honors classes. I'm sure there are hundreds of people who have done great things who did them without the benefit of honors classes in public school.
Ivory, your ideology is exactly why are public schools are the laughing stock of the entire world.
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Giving more to the gifted is like someone who has already eaten taking cuts in line ahead of someone who hasn't to get seconds. The gifted child already has what society has deemed public school should teach for that grade level and then some. I think we get more bang for our buck, as a society, if we help the child who can't read yet first. The simple solution to handling gifted kids is just move them up a grade. Why do you need a special class that teaches the same material taught in the next grade?
. Took them 5 weeks this year. I half think they thought they were teaching her a lesson by moving her up a year into honors math but it took her only 2 weeks to catch up and it's been straight A's since then. They've already told her she'll split her day between the high school and middle school in 8th grade and have enough credits to graduate at the end of 11th grade if she wishes or she can take college classes, on their dime (mom is going for this option 