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See highlighted post. When others are strarving and you're well fed, what is the right thing to do? Eat more or pass the plate?
The problem is that gifted kids make up a very small portion of the population. As to kids with other gifts. If you'll look around, it's not society that caters to kids with other gifts. It's, usually, their parents paying for lessons, coaching, training, whatever...I WISH society valued my daughters gifts enough to pay for them. They don't. I pay the $3000 a year it costs for her piano lessons. Yes, her gifts are just as important as anyones but that doesn't mean she's owed those piano lessons. She's lucky she has parents who can pay for them. Society does not cater to the gifted in any area until they prove they stand out among the gifted. So the really good athelete gets a scholarship, the really good pianist gets a scholarship to Juliard BUT MANY MORE academically gifted students get scholarships to college. Even I managed a full scholarship and I don't have a gifted bone in my body.
My school does not cater to gifted kids. If we did, we'd have few students. 99% of students don't meet the definition of gifted. Those that do, if they want specialized programs, probably should head to magnet schools.
Yes, things like robotics teams, if you can afford them, do teach teamwork, however, they are not a direct result of the G&T program. If I had the money, I could put one together at my school. I'd only need half a dozen students to run it but this is a costly proposition and there are other, more pressing, needs. You have to look at the cost to benefit ratio. If I had that money, I have more pressing things to spend it on. I don't have it so it's a moot point anyway.
It sounds like you come from an elite area. Congratulations on being born into a winning hand. Others are not so lucky and until we can say we've taught every child to read, we really can't worry about whether or not elite kids get more to play with. "So why shouldn't they have more opportunities since they need less remedial" Answer: Your WANTS don't trump their NEED. They NEED remdiation. You WANT G&T programs. Sorry, NEEDS trump WANTS.
If you had an ill brother or sister who was taking up all the family's time and money, their NEED would trump that you WANT a new computer. That's just the way it works. Teaching one person to read is worth more than embellishing the education of 10 gifted kids. G&T kids will graduate and go to college where they can major in anything they want. If not having a G&T program stops you from doing that, then I question whether or not your G&T at all. Now, it's nice when you can have them. I'm glad you do have one. However, where I am, it's more important that we remediate the kids we can. I've stated before that tracking would be a good solution here but you'd have to fill all tracks. You couldn't have a true G&T program.
The problem with G&T classes where I am is there are 12-15 kids in them while there are 30 kids in the other classrooms. The other classrooms are being overburdened to accomodate the honors and AP classes. So the kids who need more of a teacher's attention get less because we all have to have two more kids in our rooms because the honors and AP classes are so small. Sorry but frosting for a few can't be at the expense of cake for others.
Hypocrite. You defend the existence of the football team over that of the G/T programs. If it was REALLY about the NEEDS of the remedial students than you would be calling for the end of the totally superfluous non-educational items LIKE SPORTS!!
Though a frugally run sports program has a pretty high bang for the buck ratio in terms of dropout prevention. Extracurriculars like that have some really good correlations with a whole bunch of academic and social (ie. lower drinking, drug use, and teen pregnancy rates) desired outcomes.
No, what the schools are saying is they don't have money to fund everything so they fund what makes a difference to their budgets and will, positively, impact society the most. Giving you an AP class won't help society. Teaching students who can't read to read well enough that they can get and hold down a job might keep them out of prison.
In an ideal world, there would be funding for everything. Unfortunately, there isn't.
As to 1:1 aids, they are only allocated on a need basis. I have two classes where half of the kids are special ed and no aids to be found. I wish they had aids. Then I could concentrate on teaching the top half of the class while their aids worked with them.
IME, school boards fund what makes a difference to their budgets and to their own interests. Free cell phones for administrators and a $900 car allowance and free trip to Oxford for a library card for the superintendent (two of one local county's perqs) are unlikely to have a positive impact on society.
And perhaps I'm excessively cynical, but 1:1 aides are as likely to be allocated on a "have lawyer and not afraid to use him" basis as a need basis.
There's more bang for your buck bringing up the bottom. If you don't educate the bottom, you WILL have higher costs for programs like welfare and for prisons. If you spend extra time educating the top, you might get a return. The truth of the matter is, most "exceptional" students in high school grow up to be pretty ordinary in the work world. Often exceptional in high school just means ahead of the curve and others, eventually, catch up.
Don't get me wrong, I could have a blast teaching a class of only top students. It's just that I can see the school's point in focusing on the bottom given that resources are limted. You put your effort where it will do the most good. Making AYP is the difference between getting your budget next year or not. Having AP calculus doesn't help attain that goal.
That said, I do think there should be schools for gifted children. Honestly, they could be quite cost effective. Class sizes could be larger without compromising education because of the quality of the student and removing them from the regular classroom means that the teacher can teach to the level of the class. The problem is most schools don't have enough G&T kids to fill a classroom. Classes are often small so they cost more than regular classes. If you normally put 30 kids in a class and you put 15 in a G&T class, you need two teachers for the G&T classes for every one teacher teaching general ed. Now if a school is large enough to fill G&T classes, there should be no reason not to offer them. In fact, tracking would actually help the teacher concentrate on pulling up the bottom.
In my school, you can tell which hours honors and AP classes are offered. Those are the hours my class is over stuffed. When you have tiny AP/Honors classes, the other classes get larger. The other kids have to go somewhere. I think they should fill G&T classes. Research has shown that putting high average students in honors classes results in them learning more. I resent being given classes of 32 to accomodate someone teahcing an honors class of 12.
Gifted magnets don't specifically require extra funding, though. What they require is a shift in gears on the part of the teachers and administrators-- a difference in methods and expectations. Not shiny objects thrown at them. Though administrators seem to really like buying the shiny objects; probably because then they can use the magnet school as a show-and-tell aide when they're trying to tell everyone how wonderful the system is.
There don't seem to be nearly the gifted adults as there are gifted kids.
I suspect the reason for that is twofold: many school districts define "gifted" far more broadly than is strictly accurate; and adults don't generally require labeling six to eight hours a day for the convenience of the people in charge.
My kids have pretty much ceased to be "gifted" (or, for that matter, "special ed" of any kind) since we initiated homeschooling. The intellectual capacity is the same, but they don't need to be culled from a larger, more typical, herd.
Hypocrite. You defend the existence of the football team over that of the G/T programs. If it was REALLY about the NEEDS of the remedial students than you would be calling for the end of the totally superfluous non-educational items LIKE SPORTS!!
LOL, there's nothing hypocritical about that, lol. The football team unifies the school. It teaches teamwork both within the team and within the school. It generates school spirit. It provides physical exercise for the students who participate. It is NOT a program designed to cater to an elite few like a G&T program.
I suspect the reason for that is twofold: many school districts define "gifted" far more broadly than is strictly accurate; and adults don't generally require labeling six to eight hours a day for the convenience of the people in charge.
My kids have pretty much ceased to be "gifted" (or, for that matter, "special ed" of any kind) since we initiated homeschooling. The intellectual capacity is the same, but they don't need to be culled from a larger, more typical, herd.
I'm not referring to labels. I'm referring to performance. Far fewer adults are performing, significantly, above average than kids in G&T programs. I don't have a gifted bone in my body but I could outperform 99% of the people I worked with and for during my engineering career (My last job excluded as that manager liked to surround himself with VERY INTELLIGENT people. I never did figure out how I made the cut. I was about middle of the pack there.).
What happens to formerly gifted children? Do they simply cease to be gifted?
I'll use my dd as an example. She started playing piano at 3 and wrote her first composition at 5. She was playing publically and competing at 7. Now she's 12. Now that other, more typical kids, have had time to learn, she doesn't seem so far out front. I know she is, levelwise, as her teacher keeps reminding us she's playing pieces that are 2-3 years ahead of her peers but the definition of 2-3 years ahead of her peers is changing as her peers develop many of the skills she already has.
I have to wonder if, when she's 20, it will even matter that she was once gifted enough to be performing publically years before most kids have their first lesson. My thoughts are that many of her peers will simply catch up to her, in time and no one will be able to tell the difference between her and kids who started playing at 6 or even 9 who put in the effort to get to the master level (or whatever level she finishes at as she may choose to not go that far).
My best friend, in high school, had an IQ of 180. She ended up getting a 2 year degree and becomming a paralegal. While she's good at what she does, so are most of the other paralegals. She's above average but not a stand out. I'm not gifted at all. I'm above average for an engineer but not a stand out. Seems we ended up in the same place. Where did her giftedness go? The only thing it's gotten her is membership in MENSA.
Gifted magnets don't specifically require extra funding, though. What they require is a shift in gears on the part of the teachers and administrators-- a difference in methods and expectations. Not shiny objects thrown at them. Though administrators seem to really like buying the shiny objects; probably because then they can use the magnet school as a show-and-tell aide when they're trying to tell everyone how wonderful the system is.
(Zowie, I am cynical today.)
I never said they did. However, a school can't be cost effective with 12 kids in a class when the state average is 27. I suggested magnet schools because they are more likely to be able to fill the classes so that class funding is the same. Removing the G&T kids from the neighborhood school removes those small classes and reduces the class sizes for the other classes. IMO, everyone wins when you simply have a G&T magnet school.
LOL, there's nothing hypocritical about that, lol. The football team unifies the school. It teaches teamwork both within the team and within the school. It generates school spirit. It provides physical exercise for the students who participate. It is NOT a program designed to cater to an elite few like a G&T program.
1. FOOTBALL IS NOT EDUCATIONAL!! If you are saying there is not enough money for gifted education how can you say there is enough for extra-curricular??? School is about education (in all its forms) BEFORE extracurricular activities.
2. Football is the epitome of elitist since only the elite athletes get to play.
3. Many, many children through out many schools in many states do not find the football team to be either unifying or building of team spirit. Why do their opinions not matter?
4. You can "lol" before and after every sentence you write but it is fundamentally HYPOCRITICAL to say that there is not enough money for gifted education but there is even more money for non-education activities like football which directly serve even less students. Hypocrite.
I never said they did. However, a school can't be cost effective with 12 kids in a class when the state average is 27. I suggested magnet schools because they are more likely to be able to fill the classes so that class funding is the same. Removing the G&T kids from the neighborhood school removes those small classes and reduces the class sizes for the other classes. IMO, everyone wins when you simply have a G&T magnet school.
Cost effective? Based on what? How are you determining if education is effective let alone factor in its cost?
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